Sunshine Empire - Too Good To Be True?
Blogged By: Low Hang Wei @ October 2nd, 2007 - 4:38 pmIf you have heard of Sunshine Empire, then you would know of the insane returns that they have been projecting. While most of their merchants do acknowledge that these returns are not guaranteed, it does not change the fact that many people who buy into the program are expecting those returns. Many people are unaware of the potential risks of putting their money in a program like Sunshine Empire.
Firstly, the benefit illustration that their merchants are using in their presentations exceed a 100% annualized return, which is around three to five times the performance of top investors like Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch. That alone is enough ground for people to shout ‘too good to be true’. Additionally, their customer rebate program sounds just like a Ponzi scheme, since it basically takes only 10% of membership fees to rebate current members. In short, people who joined later are paying people who joined earlier. In order for a ponzi scheme to sustain, the amount of members need to grow at an exponential speed month after month. That alone is enough reason to drive rational investors away.
However, I recently decided to get a slot in Sunshine Empire and paid for the membership fees and GP fees of $11,800 just today.
Do I think that it’s a wise investment to make?
Not a chance, Sunshine Empire is not even recognised by MAS as an investment vehicle in the first place.
Would I refer anyone to put their money in Sunshine Empire?
Fat hope, why would I refer anybody to something that I do not think is a wise investment.
Why did I put my money in Sunshine Empire then?
- The desire to grow my money made me blind.
- While their customer rebate program sounds like a Ponzi scheme, their customer loyalty program does make a bit of sense. If you don’t know what these are, don’t bother to find out, since I do not recommend anyone to put their money in.
- This amount of money is what I made in investments for the year and I can afford to lose them.
Basically, the last point is the most important point. Never put your money in these type of schemes if you cannot afford to lose them. I sincerely feel that this whole thing is very risky, but I’m willing to take the risks. I don’t know about you, but my advice to anyone would be… stay away unless you are prepared to part with your money forever.
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November 14th, 2007 at 11:47 am
To Ming,
“At a friend’s recommendation, I purchased 3 GPs because of the additional bonus that could be earned. He did not hard sell ot me. It is purely out of my own willingness to purchase. That was in end September.
Anyway, after seeing the initial returns, I purchased another 1 GP in mid October. And so far I have got back about 5K in bonus as well besides the rebates for October and November.
Having work for 30 years and facing extreme work pressure, I just thought if there is a way out for me, and this is it. Now I can afford to relax a bit and later find a less demanding job, nevermind the pay being lesser.
Thank you to Sunshine Empire.”
I don’t see any reason to relax, when someone has not fully recovered its capital. The simple definition of profit, any amount you get above your capital. If I’m not wrong, you have invested 4x$12,000 = $48,000. How fast you’re able to get back the $48,000, is a question mark as police probe into Sunshine Empire. As Sunshine Empire is not under MAS, there won’t be legal promise in ensuring you can get back your capital. The company can choose not to give you return or run away with your money.
November 14th, 2007 at 1:36 am
Commercial Affairs Department is investigating into the affairs of SE.
http://www.cad.gov.sg/topNav/faq/Sunshine+Empire+Pte+Ltd.htm
November 13th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Goodluck Dr. Henry Chan,
Say goodbye to the $100K you put in.
You deserve every bit of the misery that you will be getting soon.
November 13th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
She told me that Sunshine empire ( as a whole) does not mind if I was only 17 when i signed the contract. She said that ‘everyone did that’ and she ‘was sure that i had done something to disobey the law before, for example littering, so what difference will it make if i breached one statement of the contract?’
yes, now I agree that one black sheep doesn’t make the whole company bad. It’s just that me and my true friends have already been approached by different people, and we have all experienced the same thing. Mistake noted.
November 13th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
At a friend’s recommendation, I purchased 3 GPs because of the additional bonus that could be earned. He did not hard sell ot me. It is purely out of my own willingness to purchase. That was in end September.
Anyway, after seeing the initial returns, I purchased another 1 GP in mid October. And so far I have got back about 5K in bonus as well besides the rebates for October and November.
Having work for 30 years and facing extreme work pressure, I just thought if there is a way out for me, and this is it. Now I can afford to relax a bit and later find a less demanding job, nevermind the pay being lesser.
Thank you to Sunshine Empire.
November 13th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
SE’s approach is such that everyone can share a piece of the pie, but the pie can only be sustained if and only if:
1. New members are recruited
2. Its projects have materialized, broken even and achieved profits
Currently, nobody is sure of the WiFi project in Taiwan, especially when not too many people are even using their service. This is verified through my extensive network of undergraduates (who are deemed to be more relevant in technology) in Taiwan. As such, SE is not even reaping profit, let alone covering cost.
Next, its other projects may look rosy on the surface, but filled with uncertainties. Besides the members of SE (my friend told me that it’s compulsory), who else is subscribing to Emcom?
As such, its payout is from the fees of both old and new members. Think about it, what if the whole world is now a member of SE, there’ll be no more new members, yet SE has to keep paying out to the whole world. I guess that’s when the issue of sustainability comes in.
School professors from recognized universities in Singapore have warned their students not to be blinded by greed, because of the various fundamental flaws in the business concept / framework.
Mr. James might be a visionary, but he shouldn’t be worshipped like a God, just like no one worships Warren Buffet or Bill Gates.
My friend quit her education and went full time into SE. What’s the root reason for doing that, I thought. Greed, shortcuts, success without labor?
Seriously, I have more faith in buying shares than inevesting in SE. Shall we wait and see?
November 13th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Now would be too late to open a GP i guess, if it was a money game, it would be the end of the stage,
Anyway most of the posts from the associates doesn’t sound like a Sunshine agent, Feels more like a competitor posing and making the agents look bad
November 12th, 2007 at 12:06 am
Has Mr Low received any returns from this venture so far?
November 11th, 2007 at 7:30 am
Let’s see the value of $12,000 to a 17-year old teenager. If we use $12,000 to buy $2 Mc-chicken burger, he’ll get 6000 burgers right. If he consumes one burger a day, he can eat for 10 long years until he is 27 years old.
Some teens are smart, some are too sheltered and impressionable. Most importantly, keep the money away from people who are easy to fall prey to sweet-talk, or high pressure sales tactics.
November 11th, 2007 at 7:19 am
sounds like the training involves high pressure, hard selling and aggressive, even unfair sales tactics.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:51 am
sunshine empire’s contract states 18. u were only 17 then…
Then you should not sign.
From your post thats what your so called FRIEND did. Not Sunshine Empire. Please be more specific. Like you said… Its stated in the contract 18. So how does ur friend become the embodiment of the whole company?
one singaporean kill someone and that makes the whole singapore a nation of murderers? guess not right?
November 10th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
This is a good reply. I respect u too.
November 10th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
some people talk so much about how good SE is. Bull.
they make use of FRIENDS to recruit people!
And when my FRIEND tried to recruit me, she asked me to meet up with her but refused to tell me anything about it. I knew it was bad news, but I didnt like to reject her becuase she was my FRIEND.
And why do you only try to recruit one person at a time? And why do ou say its unobligatory to join, but when we reject, YOU CALL AND CALL AND SPAM our handphpnes?
And i don’t like the way you tried to talk sense into me, becuase all you said was that I am unfilial, inflexible, silly, and loads of other stuff.
Sunshine empire, please respect my piriorities
and I HATE YOU
And I know quite a few people there who have lost friends becuase those friends felt to brtrayed
And so you really have to keep your job from your friends and family for so long? What is this. A secret society?
And when we say that our parents will object, what was your stupid reply?
When you get the job, DO NOT TELL YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY OK.
Why can’t I tell, if its somethng that i don’t need to hide? Don;t tell me that you want to wait a few months, then show your parents that u can actually succeed in this line. SO WHY CAN’T WE TELL OUR FRIENDS?
Oh and also, sunchine empire, your contract clearly states that I must be 18 to sign this contract. I was only 17 then, and you still insisted that i sign the contract. SO WHAT IS THAT STATEMENT FOR?
http://www.moneysense.gov.sg/check_our_list/Consumer_Portal_IAL.html
November 10th, 2007 at 2:42 am
Interesting comments.
I’m currently a member of SE for almost a year now. I must say they’re methods are… different from traditional companies.
I’m bearing in mind what words I should use as there’re so many emotional attacks around.
I agree with Mr. Low, it is risky, but basic principles is no risk no gain. And also, how risky a venture is, is proportionate to how much true knowledge you have of it.
These past six months I have been actively trying to obtain hardy legal documents for proof but to no avail save some minor one’s.
As such is the nature of MLM, word of mouth is practically compulsary, I dislike to go down to the company more than neccessary as I have to admit, I don’t really enjoy the company of the networkers there.
Simply put, Money-minded.
Perhaps its due to the youth of our ages. However, it is important to pay visits to the office and news spread really fast due to the speed of growth in SE. It is of utmost importance, and a responsibilty of any active networker to go down and know of any updates so as to educate your current and future downlines. Or even uplines.
As Mr Low has mentioned in his posts, I have to agree as I have received my “rebates” and I must say money can really blind a person.
I have faith that the company has potential to become really successful, but truth be told, faith isn’t enough. Listening to Mr James Phang on stage as well as off, I sense that he has a clear direction of where he wishes to bring the company, I have to respect him, also because he has given all of us an opportunity to reap the benefits of his company. Though, it pays to be humble, sometimes, he’s kinda over-confident. Who can blame him, for the past year SE has been growing exponentially, Smooth sailing!
I have to agree with something he mentioned. Only in 2000 was MLM legalised in Singapore, it was legalised much earlier in the United States. This I believe is due to a proper system not yet being established in Singapore to facilitate MLM. Tax system as well as legality of certain MLM systems. Even upon turning legal there were many ponzi schemes like swiss cash, and so on coming in and out. My point is, this system that SE is using has never been seen in Singapore before, and I’m certain CAD or MAS are competent enough to close SE once they find any loopholes. For now, SE is undertaking many measures to legalise as well as get out of the alert list including its members paying taxes and so on. Therefore it is not the time yet to make remarks that it is a SCAM or Ponzi or whatever terms some use. Because we DO NOT KNOW the black and white terms and conditions that SE has with CAD or MAS as they are kept secret with James Phang in his extravagant office.
Also, pulling out the history of James Phang with NOP and so on, we do not know the involved parties personally thus we have no right to judge anyone, but we can choose not to participate in SE’s activities. All police reports and CAD reports regarding NOP are kept confidential, so it is not fair to let your mouths fly and bad mouth the company or its affiliates.
The unfortunate thing about this business is that alot is placed on faith and integrity.
I doubt some of the earlier posts were by SE members as they were too rash and unsettling, we all have to be mindful of the fact that there are false entities around due to MLM competition.
We have a long road to walk, many things to improve in SE, mainly educating the older networkers as well as the youth, learn to be humble.
All in all, I hope SE will improve as time passes and they release more news and fullproof documents so as to facilitate even more growth of its network and put its member’s hearts at ease.
Thanks again to Hang Wei for being so patient with the comments. I wish you the best in achieving your first million, as I aspire to achieve it myself through other diverse methods. Cheers!
November 9th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. Give it six months. Appreciates Mr Low’s update as and when relevant.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
CSN
Posted November 2nd, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
Your are? Why don’t show your self and upload ur photo on the net.
You are posting all negative issues and i strongly believe your r negative people who do not really understand about SE. Looking at the surface is equal to 0.
I also strongly believe your are uneducated people or too educated which make your think too much on negative. Even though you maybe highly educated, your knowledge = 0 because you do not have basic knowledge about business, technology, and law of attraction.
Besides, proved to me how much you can earn per-month. If you cannot earn the money which members of SE earn, please keep quiet and looking at the mirror then ask your self “who am i” to tell public about negative thing. Maybe you want to be a superman in here, but i wanna tell you, superman only exist in TV. So go home and watch more cartoon.
Diversification of business in EGA never let all the members die. Mr James Phang is the legend in MLM company in Asia and soon will be WORLD WIDE.
So, lastly, please sit at home see how we success.
Thank you for your time to read this
November 8th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
maybe Mr Low can give us his comments when he receives his monthly rebate.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:09 am
I know there are alot of concern regarding SE out there. But at least let me clarify some issues.
1. There is no problem with the cash out system. All members should have cash out as per normal. If not do inform the staff.
2. TNP ask WHAT water themepark. Please refer to link below. Obviously the Chief Minister left the Mayor out of the loop RE: the Projects.
http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/newspaper/msg_malakaCM.pdf
If You cannot read Malay try babel-ing it.
3. The blogs are removed as the media are actually quoting from the blogs itself and referring them to be representations(OFFICIAL) of SE. Which are not official words of the company itself. -imo the reporters can be quite an air head at times with alot of mis-interpretations and mis-quotes just to boost paper sales.-
4. NTI still around By the way. =) so Is NOP.
5. CAD should be the one to carry out judgement if SE found guilty. not TNP.
6. Look for a news clip on Malaysia’s TV1 there are video feeds on Malaysia’s national TV regarding the projects. =)
7. Members in Malaysia are operating for SE under one of EGA subsidary Empire 99 (previously known as Network 99(which does have a NWM license) a NWM firm recently bought over by EGA). Acquisition of License is a pain in the butt but there are ways of going around it. I own a pub, when i started out i bought over a existing pub so that i can acquire the fire,alcohol and tobacco license instantly without the hassle of applying for them. I guess it works the same way.
Please reply to this post maturely. If you have any queries and concern i will try to answer them to my best with facts and evidence. Flaming spamming immaturity will be ignored. ty.
November 6th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
it is getting so quiet now. maybe the tv should documentary this in “Focus” or “Moneymind” eh.
November 4th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
this is getting interesting.
November 2nd, 2007 at 9:47 pm
gosh! the blog disappeared!!!!????!!!
November 2nd, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Dear Friends,
This message is to create a warning on Empire Alliance Group (EGA). The company has a subsidiary, Sunshine Empire (SE), which mainly functions as Multi-Level Marketing Company. It is selling e-points which can be used to purchase products on their website. The scheme started 2006, August. Prior this project, EGA (or rather J*mes Ph*ang) has another project called New-Trend International (NTI) & Magic Kingdom (which claims to invest in Indonesia property) in Singapore which also functions somewhat similar, and it is now diminished in Singapore.
Sunshine Empire is on MAS consumers alert list (http://www.moneysense.gov.sg/check_our_list/Consumer_Portal_IAL.html). If you ask any of the SE members, they’ll tell you it’s not an investment company, but their proposal & key attraction work in that nature, using the word “partnership”, and even so the company doesn’t issue shares (with share certificate) & legal partnership agreement. Using wordings to find legal loopholes does not indicate legitimacy. “why he join?” “cos can make $” –> is investment.
SE’s scam revealed in China: http://www.pincom.cn/action/eliteview?elite_id=1000000000225351
SG news report on SE:
MAS ADVISES INVESTORS NOT TO DEAL WITH BLACKLISTED FIRM: http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,146133,00.html? (the new paper 29 oct 2007)
WHAT WATER THEME PARK PROJECTS: http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,146134,00.html? (the new paper 29 oct 2007)
News from SE that they’ll delay the next payment by 14 days. This week, SE is inviting the Datuk Zaini Md Nor, the mayor of Malacca City Council, to Singapore, to explain about their Water Theme Park project. 2 months ago SE also went Malaysia to witness a opening of their project by Malysia MP. Real person? Maybe.
SE is located in Singapore, HDB Hub, Biz 3, BLK 490 Toa Payoh Lorong 6 hub, #07-10, s310490.
Anyone passing by TPY, would probably heard of Emcom or Sunshine Empire. The customers of the company is overwhelming people are literally queuing up to purchase (Gold Partnership) GP, currently costing at $11,520, to enjoy Customer Rebate Privileges (CRP) & Customer Loyalty Privileges (CLP) which is the main attraction of this scheme.
All of the people I know bought a few, some even ten, twenty, or more GP. The company claims they have more than 30,000 members each holding 1 or more GP which translate to at least $345.6 million SGD used to purchase GP. And their numbers are indeed convincing for anyone who stepped in their office before.
The money from GP is said to invest in a wireless project in Taiwan, Emcom. I highly suspect that the company is using the word “rebate” & “products” to cover meaning of dividends or investment returns or ponzi scheme. A Ponzi scheme usually offers abnormally high short-term returns in order to entice new investors. The high returns that a Ponzi scheme advertises (and pays) require an ever-increasing flow of money from investors in order to keep the scheme going (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme#Overview).
As far as I know, the key activity in Singapore is financing, so is their function other countries establishment.
The proponent:
1) Basic membership (SM) cost $1,240 SGD
2) Customer Alpha purchases 1 Gold Partnership (GP) at $11,520 SGD.
3) Alpha will get $2,500++ SGD the following month,
4) Alpha gets $1,300++ SGD every following month till total rebate of $19,200 SGD in about 15 months, guaranteed.
5) The company is able to payout such high returns from their “other sources of income”
6) Sunshine Empire payout is based on how many people purchases GP every month (Multi-Level Marketing). SE uses new GP to pay existing GP > contravenes MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING AND PYRAMID SELLING (PROHIBITION) ACT (CHAPTER 190)
7) Once Emcom project launch in Taiwan, they’ll take 50% of the profit to share with each GP, till a total return of another $96,000 SGD. Expected to be over 5 ~8 years.
8) All “partners” are encouraged to bring in more friends & relatives to purchase GP.
The contract, as attached with this mail, does not mention about the returns, any guarantees, or cash returns, which does not match their verbal presentation. All clauses seem to cover up for the company. Even if the project did exist and profits, the company is not obligated to pay the “partners” anything.
He will get $ from ponzi schemes; All/Most Ponzi Scams WILL payout as promised as long as new members/investment are enrolled into the program, until the members/investment can no longer sustain the payout. It is designed to make people believe, & sign without reading the contract. If SE is sincere of their promise (for long term), the contract may not be written in such.
Even if he did made $ from ponzi schemes (by joining early & stop reinvesting early), it is unethical & unlawful money as it is cheated from his “downlines”.
To summarize:
1) SE seems to promote Multi-Level Marketing, using new GP to payout existing GP. > contravenes MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING AND PYRAMID SELLING (PROHIBITION) ACT (CHAPTER 190) http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/
MLM exclusion: http://app.mti.gov.sg/data/pages/81/doc/frm_LEG_MLMOrder_Act.pdf SE’s GP costs $11,500 SGD may fail to meet any standard in the exclusion.
2) Such “rebate income” is unregistered source of income and partners in SE mentioned some money launderers chose to buy GP. Verbal guaranteed rebate of 166% of initial purchase price, suspecting using of wording “rebate” to cover meaning of “income”.
3) The proposal is promoted as mainly investment, but not registered with MAS, however, product e-points are being sold, but not the focus of the scheme.
4) SE as MLM, not direct-selling, nor registered under Direct Selling Association of Singapore.
5) Verbal agreement does not match of written agreement, the written agreement differs from verbal as,
a. There is no mentioning any form of cash returns.
b. There is no mentioning money used to purchase GP goes into Emcom or any other projects.
c. There is no mentioning a promised percentage of EGA’s or SE’s or Emcom’s profit will be used to rebate the customers.
d. There is no mentioning guaranteed returns
e. There is no mentioning principle protected.
f. The written agreement is designed as a normal purchase agreement, whereas the verbal presentation & agreement is promoted as a high yielding, returns guaranteed investment.
6) Suspect of a ponzi /confidence scam, a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme. Usually over 90% of the people who get involved in pyramid/ponzi schemes never recoup their initial investment. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme).
I have filed reports to CAD on Dec, Feb, Oct 2007 but still awaiting action.
SE may push everything to individual’s presentation fault to avoid prosecution (that’s maybe why the contract is different from verbal agreement, to make use of “distributors”), however since all members of SE learns and presents the same, there should be a mastermind; either way, the activity, if illegitimate, got to stop. Hope authorities can gather proof to prosecute the real masterminds instead of fishing ikan-bilis due to legal loopholes, if illegitimate.
Ponzi scams has existed more than a century, today’s schemes are often considerably more sophisticated than Ponzi’s, although the underlying formula is quite similar and the principle behind every Ponzi scheme is to exploit lapses in judgment arising from an investor’s lack of information.
People cheated by thousands of scams around the world are not fools, many of them are graduates from universities & successful businessmen; swindlers tell stories like those you heard, & some believes. Swindlers (at least some, rest simply copy & modify) are clever, good mathematicians, good at penetrating legal loopholes (if I can understand so much, pro conmen can do better), and of course, good at lying.
The scheme has already affected more than 30,000 Singaporeans and multiplying by the day, it may soon reach market saturation in Singapore and may collapse, affecting the maximum population, and usually over 90% of the people who get involved in pyramid/ponzi schemes never recoup their initial investment.
No surprise we’ll know some people in SE, most people in it does not have enough life experience & are innocent & doesn’t know of such scams (despite annoyingly high), please do not be angry with them, although by participating & promoting they already liable to charges. Most in SE are deep in it and surely emotionally cannot accept truth, warn as much people as possible whose not affected, when less people join, the pyramid payout is unsustainable, and SE will fade naturally.
However, if SE does collapse one day like NTI & MK & Swisscash (BTW Swisscash 2 founders is said to be JP’s disciples), he can sue his upline and he may be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $200,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both (Plus other charges like misinterpretion, etc).
Please forward this message to people you care about to warn about such schemes, and if you will, write in your concern to:
Monetary Authority of Singapore
10 Shenton Way MAS Building
Singapore 079117
pressofficer@mas.gov.sg
Tel: (65)-6225-5577
Fax: (65)-6229-9491
Commercial Affairs Department
Address : 391 New Bridge Road #06-701
Police Cantonment Complex Block D
Singapore 088762
Tel : 1800 325 0000
Fax : 6223 3171
GAN_Chun_Seng@spf.gov.sg
..or relevant authorities to encourage their investigation. Remember to file the case as corperate offense report (orelse it’ll be treated as “filed away” information as reference). We as consumers have to be more vigilant and gather hard evidence to provide (maybe most people fearing getting into trouble so don’t bother, so ponzi schemes can survive).
I admit my discontent with the authorities’ slow action, although I understand their concerns of trouble in gathering proof to prosecute the company (as the company may manipulate around legal loopholes) and creating panic in businesses, such that previous establishment like NTI & MK may have made JP scot-free income, and do it over again; in fact it may has inspired other companies to replica such systems; but maybe if more people encouraging a more stringent law against scams, sending secret shoppers to investigate complaints, may the authorities be more diligent & protect consumers/investors & promote a healthy economy.
Ponzi scams may be extremely harmful to Singapore’s economy as our country is small & proved SE can spread & reach saturation in just 1 year; SG is building towards a financial hub, what might foreign investors think of investing in our country if ponzi schemes simply can come in & go? How much of SE’s profit is taxable? How much of it will even remain in SG?
Best Regards,
C S Ng
“What if five robbers were robbing for you, and they each recruit five robbers to rob for you?”
Attachment:
http://scams.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=ea_contract_f
http://scams.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=ea_contract_b
*Disclaimer* Information are based on SE’s member’s presentation to me, maybe the company simply meant traditional selling of e-points & normal “cash rebate 166% of purchased price”, maybe.
November 2nd, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Hmm, it seems strange that all of a sudden, no SE members are here to answer questions. I’m still waiting for the reply to my #18 post.
October 31st, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Hey guys,
EGA International President and Emcom MD would be receiving recognition awards at the coming Global Business Opportunities Forum 2007.
Stay tuned.
More details, refer to http://www.sunshine-empire-holdings.com/blog
October 30th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
You said something about keeping your integrity. I think there’s a flaw there.
By joining in SE, you are sharing the spoils of the ponzi scheme. But because you know that it MIGHT be a ponzi scheme, you want to hop on it as soon as possible so as to avoid losing money joining late.
However, in order to answer to your own conscience, you do not encourage people so you do not actually “con” people. Getting the dirty money but attempts to redeem yourself eh?
Think about it. Some of your first 1 million might not be clean money…
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
October 30th, 2007 at 12:24 am
how about Emperor’s New Clothes? simple analogy ain’t it? I don’t understand why must go into all the details of which plan and which scheme is better. The answer should be so clear as to; is it true or false? Black or white? Good or bad? Pass or fail?
October 29th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
#18 is a nice post.. good work ken =)
post #3 is a joke,
Post #5, If SE is a good company, you don’t have to worry about bad press, and you surely wont have the need to be in a hurry to get back your capital, unless you yourself, don’t have the faith that SE would last.
I still dont understand why you said “without recuitment, how long you think the scam can last”.. just seems funny from a guy who’s in SE.
Post #8 makes me worried, so this bunch of guys are trying to get more people to join so they can get back thier capital and get out of SE? so more people will end up in hot soup and the cycles carry on… i wonder if any of you guys seem the japan drama call ” the liar game”.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Dear Hang Wei,
Well, people search for relevant information to them so there really isn`t anything worth being sad about. Look at it this way, if this page did not exist in ur blog, searching for information regarding SE would become a greater challenge. Whether to buy or not, it is still up to the individual. My posting above is not meant to sound negative but I am being critical because if I do buy, it`ll be for a Gold Package. To pay out RM27,750 is a lot of money so I hope u can understand that I am being cautious.
In response to Posting #15 by Samual_Gullible, u, sir have used 2 words which are inaccurate in SE’s business venture. The word “join” and “invest” does not exist in SE’s offerings and thus, how could you be responsible over something that SE has never promised u? Furthermore, SE is not the only direct selling company that offers u an opportunity to make millions provided u`re willing to work hard and build ur network so ur advocation for us to love James Phang for his “generosity” is confounding, particularly in the light that it is YOUR MONEY, YOUR EFFORTS and YOUR CONTACTS that is contributing to the financial health of the company which, in turn contributes to your promised extraordinary returns of … gee, I can`t use the word “investment” so can I say “support”?
To posting #16 by Alan Wong, to be fair, I think SE does have a solid history in which we can check. The question I ask myself is, while it may be working well in Singapore, it doesn`t necesarrily mean it`ll work well in Malaysia, particularly if the government decides to shut it down due to irregularities in its operations being non-compliant with the operating license issued to the Malaysian office.
I concur with Hang Wei’s observation in reply to Mr Low Hai Mi Diam’s Posting #17. What u`re getting urself involved in is very clearcut if compared against the EMV scenario. It was a simple straightforward transaction which involves buying a meal and getting a toy. There is nothing ambiguous or vague about what the EMV promotion is about (not to mention the price of an EMV is ridiculously much lower and require less purchase consideration vs forking out USD 7,500 in one shot for a GP).
I wonder: if I really want to “invest” in this company, I might as well do it the traditional way which is buying stocks (assuming it is listed) and being a shareholder. That way, I have rights to the decision of the company and all “supporters” would be technically working for me. Twisted logic?
October 29th, 2007 at 3:50 am
I was once involved in many money games like ‘one line.cc’, ‘888′. ’skybiz.com’ and a few others which were quite hot in the past. After losing thousands, I have since learned my lessons.
The latest casualties were money games like ‘Swisscash’, ‘Suissecash’, ‘Buyebarrel’ ‘Xthreem’ and many others which had either since closed down or not paying its members.
All have the same characteristics of HYIP or Ponzi schemes, promising its members huge returns on their investments on a monthly or weekly basis.
I have since learned the old sacred sayings thaT ‘If it is too good to be true, then it is not’. Just think of it, if it is so good, why don’t they get the banks to finance them or pump in the money. Why don’t all the major corporations adopt their methods to raise money instead.
The danger in all these schemes is that they propelled people to go for easy money and led a lot of people away from hard work. They capitalised on their friends and relatives and in the end, make a fortune for the company instead.
October 29th, 2007 at 3:35 am
Hi Mr Low Han Wei, I supported yopur views after reading your blog.
I read about them in the Singapore newspapers this week that like Swisscash, they are being placed on the MAS alert list just and that of Malaysia’s Securities Commission a few months ago.
Somehow, I get the feeling that those who have already “given” their money to Sunshine are now feeling even more pressured to recruit other people into the scheme as they sense the outcome of their “investment” depends on other members giving money.
Don’t be fooled by a swanky office presence or the number of employees a company has.
Nothing can change the facts that they are in the MAS alert list. Jsut like Swisscash who had since disappeared in thin air, SE will soon follow suit. According to the press, the company is under scrutiny by the Singapore authorities, so stay away from this one!
October 29th, 2007 at 12:38 am
will this matter blow out of proportion since hundreds of millions $ are involved.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:30 am
let’s see what happens tomorrow.
October 28th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Dear all,
First of all, I`d like to thank Hang Wei for setting this site up as a platform for discussion on the Sunshine Empire business. For better or worse, criticism or praises, I believe the information here will benefit all.
A little about my story (and how I came across this site). I was introduced to the SE business plan yesterday and being a person who`s involved in sales and dabble in MLM off and on, I was piqued by what seems to be a totally unique plan; something I`ve never come across before and gave my full attention. At the end of the presentation, I had a few doubts and hence did an online search, hopefully for independant sources of information and that was how I stumbled upon this blog. Therefore, I`d like to reiterate again that I am NOT an SE member, neither am I pretending that I know the business inside out. As a matter of fact, I was presented the business by a guy who`s only in the business about 1 month and given the allowance that what he told me may not be 100% accurate, I decided to verify some of the facts he told me.
After reading through all the comments here, I find that some of my concerns were answered, some raising other concerns within me that I had not taken into consideration until reading about it here. Of the 13 comments posted, 4 are (supposedly) from SE members, the 2 earlier postings were uninformative, unncessary and, IMHO, unprofessional. The postings #10 and #14 are useful and would advise any new, potential persons who’s thinking of getting themselves involved in SE to read them as they contain the jist of what the business is about.
With my (limited) understanding of the business, please correct me if I am wrong to state the following fact:
SE is NOT an investment company and is primarily involved in developing new technologies emphasizing on communication with the development of WiMAX 4G infrastucture (largest customer present is Taiwan). SE has diversified its business into 2 other huge sectors which is property and insurance as well as secondary businesses such as online emall.
What was amusing in the presentation done to me yesterday was the SE member kept emphasizing that each individual does not “join” or “invest” the company. Instead, he prefers the word “support” which doesn`t sound right to me and made me question the whole plan. In fact, the whole presentation had so many contradictory points that gave me a very bad feeling over the whole thing. I have the following concerns (please excuse me if I get my terms wrong but I hope u get the gist of what I am trying to ask):
1) SE has 3 packages (Bronze, Silver and Gold), each with its own renumeration program that also has something to do with the number of accounts given to a participant who “supports” the company. There is NO guarantee of returns, there is NO timeframe in which the expected returns will materialise (although the guy who did the presentation to me told me full payout will be about 5-6 years). This requires a huge leap of faith based on (what was presented to me) the on-time payout and beautiful office they have in KUB.com building.
2)In reply to Mr Low Hai Mi Diam’s posting (#10), this is a networking business. By definition, a business must involve a transaction between buyer and seller. Granted that I did not read the International Merchant Agreement Form so please tell me what exactly is SE selling? The huge financial returns as a result of future projected returns of WiMAX, property and insurance? The “vouchers” in which we can use to “purchase” products from emall? If it is the former, then it is illegal under Malaysian law which states that one cannot make from another person’s “joining” fee without the sale of a product/service. If it is the latter, then are we really paying more for less? If u argue that SE is not about joining nor investing, then we`re just arguing from a technical point of view. Money scams often evolve from such “technicallities”.
3) Given the benefit of doubt that SE is a multi-million, MNC company, it does not answer the issue over the fact that the operating license of SE in Malaysia is not an MLM company (yet its agents/members are carrying out direct selling activities and there is an incentive scheme of those who manages to convince people to buy the Gold Package which following MLM concept).
4) If we can`t say join nor can we say invest, what other assurances can we have aside from verbal promises and historical returns of those who`re actively recruiting (if we can even call it recruiting. Geez, all these terminology technicallities is giving me a headache)? I mean, if a Gold package costs USD 7,500, having 10 members per day would give the company USD 2,255,000 per month, not even counting those who can’t afford Gold and purchases Bronze and Silver packages. For the company to sustain payout of incentive every 10th of the month with that kind of income should not be an issue.
5)The SP incentives (I can`t recall which number … maybe SP3?) has larger reward schemes for those signing in GP (Gold Package) purchasers whereby one can be promoted to General Manager status. This means, the SE plan is more pro towards the idea of “the rich gets richer” with less opportunities for lower to middle class who cannot GPs and does not have as much upper class contacts who has the financial capacity to purchase GPs?
At the end of the day, I have the impression (and I stress that it is just a feeling and by no means meant to generalise that what I am about to say is the truth) that SE is about doing mega communication projects, funded by your money who decides to “support” a company which does not give u any black and white assurances of its returns within whatever timeframe stipulated by the company’s 10% profits which caps u on a certain limit (which incidentally frees the company to nett further profits once ur agreed cap is reached) based on the packages u signed up for earlier. In the meantime, the company gives u “vouchers” in which u use to shop in the company’s online mall which the company takes a 10% profit from any merchant who decides to make use of the company’s network of …. what? supporters?
Posting #8 really scares me because he states that his friends wanna scam him coz his friends got into the business and HAVE NO CHOICE but to scam others just to get their money back. OMG, is this what SE is about??
October 28th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Dear Mr Low Hang Wei,
Why are you implying that SE’s ‘weakest link’ is the ‘aunties’? Why are aunties weak? How are aunties weak?
To my best understanding as a Singaporean, many aunties…
1. make the best cooks in food centers
2. provides the best customer standards in fast food chains
3. aunties are heartlanders and pioneers of our young nation; an important integral part of society
SE provides a fair and unbiased platform for even aunties, retirees, the less educated and the less fortunate to find their 2nd career, at their own pace. It is definitely not as you had written as ‘put money in’ and ‘get back money’.
I am happy that you have finally used the word ‘rebate’ and I wish to advise that should you find your GP’s monthly rebate in abundance, do donate it to charity.
“Legally, SE is not an investment scheme because it is not registered with MAS, but socially, what’s the perception?”
I remember that a few years back, a certain fast food restaurant had promoted and marketed their ‘Ex*** Value Meal’ (EVM) with a free gift called the ‘Hello K****’.
What happened was that many Singaporeans queued up to buy the EVM. It was reported that there were even overnight queues. In many incidents, many consumers had kept the HK and threw away the EVM.
Fortunately for this fast food restaurant, the authorities did not misunderstand them as a Toy Company. Still there was much backlash at their marketing strategy and it was debated in local papers, online forums, much publicity indeed.
Today, the public perception is that this particular ‘EVM’ restaurant is still in the F&B industry and not the toy industry.
October 28th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Beware.
More than 10 years ago, my youngest brother joined a similar scheme in Malaysia by paying a few thousand M’sian ringgit. Later it was discovered as a scam and no trace of the company can be found.
Too late. All the money was cheated except for a couple of hundred given as commission for introducing new members.
October 28th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Sunshine Empire is a great business as long as more people are willing to join it. Once you invest your money, you have to act responsibly and get more people to join it to make it a better business….otherwise you are irresponsible to yourself. James Phang is a genius for inventing this new way of doing business that involves proactive investors who try to make the business better. We should trust Sunshine Empire more than the MAS, MAS has no interest in making us millionaires unlike James Phang whose generousity is simply beyond words.
October 28th, 2007 at 9:51 am
Hi Mr. Low,
Firstly, I would like to state that Sunshine Empire Holdings does not market investment plans or scheme. It is a professional network marketing firm as part of a straetgic planning by Empire Group Alliance, a International Conglomerate founded by Mr James Phang, our Intrnatioanl Predident.
E-mall Empire, an E-bay and Yahoo! Auction alike online platform for consumers of Sunshine Empire products features our Bronze/Silver/Gold Prime plan.
Different product packages caters to different individual needs.
Sunshine Empire Holdings Hotselling Gold Prime package boast
1. 2100 free local outgoing mins for 48 months through EmCom’s callback service server. EmCAll’s free minute can be used for IDD calls too. This product is called EmCall. To find out about EmCall in details, please visit http://www.emcall.ntt/
2. 50,000 M-Pts for our consumers to shop online at http://www.emallempire.com/
3. Our Consumer Rewards Privileges, which the mass public often mistake as a investment scheme returns, offer a 10% global profit sharing system which is exclusively for Prime packages consumers only.
Given all the facts that I have written, I eblieve it may or may not be sufficient to clarify teh misunderstanding that Mr Low had, but if individuals are interested to find out more about this, feel free to drop em a e-mail at –email deleted–.
I will comeby here to check on the progress of the heated debates about Sunshine Empire Holdings again. So in the meanwhile if individuals do have questions for me, please post them here. I would be glad to assist you in your quest for the search of the truth about Sunshine Emprie Holdings and not some myth that some people had blabbered about.
October 28th, 2007 at 1:44 am
Desperate victims attempting to balance their negative psychology by projecting pain onto yet another victim? Most interesting phenomenon.
Hang Wei has put up a good defence.
The good folks in the real finance industry supports your honesty and integrity.
Stay Profitable Always! The Relative Strength Lies Not In The Indicator But In Your Heart!
October 27th, 2007 at 9:27 am
if you want to be rich, you need to raise your level of financial literacy.
Not nice to hear but it is the truth.
Cheers!
Dennis Ng
October 25th, 2007 at 12:15 am
Refer to The Straits Times 24 Oct 2007, page 3 “Multi-level marketing firm placed on MAS alert list”. The article is referring to Sunshine Empire. Maybe The Straits Times is wrong. Maybe you guys in Sunshine Empire would like to sue The Straits Times or MAS. Wouldn’t that be more productive?
October 24th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Dear sir,
you may want to re-write this article…
coming from a financial advisor background, perhaps you must not compare “insurance policies VS business VS marketing strategies VS investment”
I feel that your writings are not objective and somewhat lacking in factual details.
“insane returns” ?
Perhaps, all your terminologies used are because either in your own paraphrasing or due to your limited understanding of SE, perhaps due to your own laziness or the poor closing technique of your upline/sponsor.
in lay man terms…
you need to be a merchant to start your networking business. price = 2 digit
I started as this 2 digit guy.
you need to purchase a “prime” if you want to enjoy privileges.
Prime plans include:
- 50,000 shopping ‘vouchers’ for the consumer to buy products.
- a monthly call back service for up to 4 years. (no contract)
- CRP was never guaranteed. It is simply capped at S$19,200. Meaning you will not receive more than this figure over time. It is calculated by shares percentage over a 10% global profit. Therefor, how could your presenter/upline/sponsor have projected any time frame?
- Your use of ‘join’ is misleading. Sales are made through the successful business transaction and signing of the International Merchant Agreement Form which I trust your have read.
I hope you feedback this to whichever upline or division you are in.
Please also take note you are using a form of Mass Media and in a place as SG, your blogs must be responsible. You may be terminated as an agent in both your Financial company and SE should there be a clash of consumer’s interest.
I hope if you wish to write about SE, at least get the facts accurate. It seriously (negatively) affected my view of you as a sound ‘Financial Advisor’
A concerned reader.
p.s I am an EmCall user, I have built up my SE business over 5 years, I use the Mall points to redeem products. I do not mislead myself that I am actually “investing” in firms such as SE or Singapore Pools Toto. One is a legitimate Business, the other is a legalized form of gambling.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:00 am
Calling Phang the ‘father’?
What’s this? SE is a cult?
Worshipping the big boss and top earners? Some business model. And, public relations is pathetic.
Greed can drive people do to illogical things. Agents are too brainwashed to use logic.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:12 pm
If sunshine empire is a scam, and u passively participate in it, what is the difference between u and a scammer
He actively scam
U passively share the spoils.
So once u join the scam, there is no turning back.
Most of the scammers I know are good people.
All they want is to get their money back.
i think there is nothing wrong with them
I not vested in this, but many friends jio me to join.
They admit, they dont want to scam but they cant get refund so no choice
Anyway what can not continue forever will stop.
Good luck.
Not much time to scam others anyway.
October 21st, 2007 at 12:54 am
Ironically, you are the one badmouthing Sunshine, referring to it as scam or having no business. Then, what are the Water theme parks and wireless networks that your members have been preaching? You view Sunshine as a scam and try to con people in, while I view Sunshine as a risky business, which is why I do not refer people in. Unlike other ponzi schemes, Sunshine does have some business ventures, which I am placing my faith in and that’s one of the main reasons I put my money in. Maybe what I heard is wrong after hearing a senior member of Sunshine utter such discouraging words. I kind of regret my decision to invest in it now. Even so, I will still ensure that I maintain the highest ethical standards and do not refer people just to cover my own backside.
It is clear that a conman may make money, but he loses his integrity which I will keep for the years to come. Have you ever thought what your friends and relatives whom you referred will think if they know you think of Sunshine as a scam and still referred them? Besides, if any of them decides to sue you, you will be in deep trouble for misrepresentation.
You make a bit of small money, but you ruin the precious relationships of the people who trusted you. As a financial adviser, that’s not what I do. I help people to save more, grow their money and they become rich. In return, I haver richer clients who save and invest more with me and I become richer. I have the adequate financial literacy to grow my money and my client’s money without resorting to scamming. The end result is win-win since all of us make money.
I can’t say the same for the people whom you referred with the attitude you are holding. Most importantly, I never have to lie or hide behind a proxy name to post a comment or write a post. I always use my real name, but I’m sure you won’t do the same. I’m disgusted by your lack of integrity.
October 20th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
[b]Warning From Securities Commission of Malaysia[/b]
Dear Sir,
We refer to your complaint regarding Sunshine Empire. We wish to inform you that Sunshine Empire is not an entity licensed by the Securities Commission (”SC” ) of Malaysia. Individuals or organisations engaged in the securities or futures industry in Malaysia come under the regulatory oversight of the SC and must be licensed by the SC for any activities involving dealing in securities or futures or providing investment advice or fund management services related to securities or future. Investment schemes offered to the Malaysian public involving securities or futures and options that are operated by unlicensed entities would be in breach of the law. The SC will take action if any person/s are found to be in breach of securities laws. For details on entities licensed by the SC you may wish to refer to our website at www.sc.com.my.
We have also verified the status of Sunshine Empire with the Ministry of Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs, and have been informed that no license has been issued to Sunshine Empire to carry out multi-level marketing activities in Malaysia.
We would appreciate it, if you could provide us with more details of the nature of the investment opportunity offered to you including any documentation or information you may have received from the company to facilitate further review of the matter.
We look forward to you reply soonest. Thank you.
Yours sincerely,
Securities Commission
Investor Affairs & Complaints
—————————————–
[b]News from Oriental Daily News - Translate Version[/b]
(Kuala Lumpur, on the 13th) - Securities Commission (SC) and the National Bank (BNM) while repeatedly reminded the public not to be approved investment in the absence of the high investment returns, but such investment company continues active. At present, under the “need vigilance,” the number of companies it had reached 68.
According to the Securities Commission to provide oversight to the latest data suggests that there is no access to the Commission and the National Bank approval to the sale of securities or to provide investment advice and fund management companies or among several website, as many as 68, and Sunshine Empire is the latest of which was included in the name.
Several readers also provide information to this newspaper that a company called Sunshine Empire to provide substantial returns dollar investment plan. The sale of the company bought three kinds of ancillary sell fiery, dramatic increase in the number of members, are among investors mostly ethnic Chinese.
Securities Commission accept the “Oriental Daily News” inquiry, pointed out that the Sunshine Empire no operating license fund management or investment advisory services. By promoting public investment companies before identifying the background. Securities Commission spokesman said that in the absence of licenses available to the public under the securities or futures investment company, is in conflict with the Securities Act at all.
This pyramid schemes claiming to be the transnational companies in Malaysia to set up nearly one year to members of pyramid investment to the supremacy of charge from 600 million ringgit of ringgit funds, and then regular monthly cash distribution to the members and agreed to 10 months “to the” can be described as lucrative.
The National Banking and Securities Commission unanimously denied a license to the company by pyramid schemes, pyramid schemes and said that the company is monitoring the activities and mode of operation; The Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs Ministry said, the company only to companies registered with no direct access to operating licenses MLM business.
On the other hand, as a central bank Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS), also means the company has not received license approval. The Monetary Authority of Singapore has been on the website, to the company as investors need to be wary of companies. Malaysian National Bank spokesman clarified that the country will not permit this to the company, allowing the company to collect deposits Member (deposit taking), the trip has been an investigation on the matter, currently overseeing the company’s operations and activities. “Member companies taking deposits, the country should apply for a license, but they did not do so.”
He said that to investors or members of illegal taking deposits, consistent with 1989 banks and financial institutions Act 25 (1) the provision. As countries, the process is still collecting information at this stage-country trip only issued warnings, urged investors to stay away from these investment company. Under existing law, once convicted, is liable to imprisonment of up to 10 years or a fine of 10 million ringgit, or both.
October 20th, 2007 at 12:54 am
Go attend more james phang seminar
Then u know who our father is
If u join and warn the public about our scam, how on earth are u and I going to get our money back
My advice to u, is pls recruit more people b4 u lose yr capital.
Unlike u I have already got my capital back.
Ironically, if sunshine empire collapse today, u suffer more than me.
There is enough bad press about our, pls be objective.
Once u join us, pls dont sabo us.
I have recouped my capital, but there are those who have not
So pls dont anyhow sabo the company.
If u got nothing good to say about us, just shut up and leave us alone.
Hope u get the light and without recruitment, how long u think the scam will last.
There is no business cycle cause there is no business.
I have been in the money game for yrs.
Heard of swiss cash?
October 20th, 2007 at 12:39 am
I am not posting any inflammatory remarks, whereas you are… since you typed ‘Even the auntie also know how to con her friend to join.’ I have never said Sunshine is out to con people and only stated that it’s risky, but your perspective is ‘Join and con people to join’.
If you are sure Sunshine will last forever, you won’t need to use the word ‘con’, cause people will be glad to join it. Even if Sunshine will last forever, will it forever be able to provide the returns that it’s projecting to its members? Learn about the basics of business cycles, my friend.
Also, just because I am willing to risk my money in something does not mean that I will promote it or recommend it. I do not need to resort to conning to make money even if Aunties do that. At least I know that my integrity is there and can make money peacefully, instead of conning people like you suggest. With or without Sunshine, I will be rich and get there without bending my integrity.
Additionally, I hate immature behaviour like calling people names like loser and was in half a mind to reject your comment. However, I think it’s good for the public to get exposed to what other people say in my blog. I’m open to any comments you may have, but please do not pollute my blog with any more family unfriendly language.
October 19th, 2007 at 9:14 am
We will be there forever
Loser
Join and con people to join.
Why u join but never jio people to join
In money game, the objective is to get back yr money asap
Even the auntie also know how to con her friend to join.
U are a damn loser
So stop posting inflammatory remarks about sunshine empire
October 19th, 2007 at 12:26 am
I am not stating that Sunshine Empire is a ponzi scheme for sure, but it definitely does have characteristics of a ponzi scheme. With regards to why I think such schemes are dangerous, I would say that the rate of growth is not sustainable.
For a company to dish out an approximate 10% return per month when they are only sharing 10% of their membership fees, it suggests that they have to at least double their member base every month. I do not know the number of members they have currently, but the whole market may be saturated by two years at most. By then, it won’t be possible for the company to double their member base every month, which means their customer rebate program will likely pay an insignificant amount.
The rest of the payout depends on their customer loyalty program, which depends on their business venture. However, it is tough for even good businesses to perform at the rates that Sunshine Empire’s members are projecting.
Therefore, all in all, that’s why I think it’s risky.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:15 am
Could you state why you think that Sunshine Empire is so risky to participate in?
Are you stating that Sunshine Empire is a ponzi scheme.