Sunshine Empire - Too Good To Be True?
Blogged By: Low Hang Wei @ October 2nd, 2007 - 4:38 pmIf you have heard of Sunshine Empire, then you would know of the insane returns that they have been projecting. While most of their merchants do acknowledge that these returns are not guaranteed, it does not change the fact that many people who buy into the program are expecting those returns. Many people are unaware of the potential risks of putting their money in a program like Sunshine Empire.
Firstly, the benefit illustration that their merchants are using in their presentations exceed a 100% annualized return, which is around three to five times the performance of top investors like Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch. That alone is enough ground for people to shout ‘too good to be true’. Additionally, their customer rebate program sounds just like a Ponzi scheme, since it basically takes only 10% of membership fees to rebate current members. In short, people who joined later are paying people who joined earlier. In order for a ponzi scheme to sustain, the amount of members need to grow at an exponential speed month after month. That alone is enough reason to drive rational investors away.
However, I recently decided to get a slot in Sunshine Empire and paid for the membership fees and GP fees of $11,800 just today.
Do I think that it’s a wise investment to make?
Not a chance, Sunshine Empire is not even recognised by MAS as an investment vehicle in the first place.
Would I refer anyone to put their money in Sunshine Empire?
Fat hope, why would I refer anybody to something that I do not think is a wise investment.
Why did I put my money in Sunshine Empire then?
- The desire to grow my money made me blind.
- While their customer rebate program sounds like a Ponzi scheme, their customer loyalty program does make a bit of sense. If you don’t know what these are, don’t bother to find out, since I do not recommend anyone to put their money in.
- This amount of money is what I made in investments for the year and I can afford to lose them.
Basically, the last point is the most important point. Never put your money in these type of schemes if you cannot afford to lose them. I sincerely feel that this whole thing is very risky, but I’m willing to take the risks. I don’t know about you, but my advice to anyone would be… stay away unless you are prepared to part with your money forever.
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November 28th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
to my extent in understanding..
Sunshine Empire is like “washing black money”
many bookies and ah loan has put their money in here because they can buy product (GP) using black money, and earn clean money back.
Authorities are in the midst of tracking them.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Teach you to scam people and con people and you call him father?? What education have you young kids recieved in school??
Teach you to go through hardship as a bankruptcy? Investors coming your home to knock your door for cheating them? All these are what your ‘father’ taught you??
November 28th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
???Got money all you young kids will call anyone father??? Your real father should disown you. Sad….
November 27th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
heard of public Mutual, it is an investment based company in Malaysia. so far, it had boxed 21 awards from The edge Lipper, Anugerah dana pelaburan malaysia the star/ standards and poor’s. For me i think, this is the fastest and low-risked way to get the highest return for your money. some of the unuit trust scheme can double your money in 3 years.
November 27th, 2007 at 12:51 am
wah. y is it that all the 1 n 3 comments sound weird?? if u are really a sunshine member, u wont be saying such thing. n if u really did attend the seminars, ur character wont be this bad as to “con” ppl in.
do u really think sunshine will collapse without ur recruitment effort? i doubt so, cos ther’s real legal business going on.
many of their projects are recognised by gov authorties, evidence: photos, documents, signature, declaration, online clips etc.
bottom line is: Do u think Asset can generate Revenue?
if yes, that’s how sunshine earns $ to reward members.
if not, i duno wat u can say to Hotels(asset-building) earning money(tourists etc). XD
Aurther =)
u wrote “Do I think that it’s a wise investment to make?
Not a chance, Sunshine Empire is not even recognised by MAS as an investment vehicle in the first place.”
haha, it’s becos……….. sunshine is not even using investment plans! LOL
good luck in everyone’s debating. time will reveil all answers.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
what the point of agrue so much
u invest is your money
they want do what they like
no one can stop them
November 26th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
I personally do not support investment in any companies that appear to be a scam, or dishonest way to make money.
My father had also invested in membership for a seaside holiday resort in Malaysia (eg. Malacca or etc)with SG$1000, and the resort just go out of business within two years in business, and all the members are cheated. The resort was not even complete in the construction of most features, as promised during recruitment for new members.
I have some questions for Merchants or Management of Sunshine Empire, who aggressively market their business as “morally legal” business.
Question 1) Can those supporters of Sunshine Empire or I would prefer the Management of Sunshine Empire, to kindly prove the authenicity of what type of Business (eg. products and services), that Empire group are operating ???
Question 2) How viable, and sustainable are the business of Sunshine Empire and Empire Group ???
Question 3) For those members joining as Merchants to Sunshine Empire, what kind of business (products & services) can all these Merchants resell, to make profit for these Merchants in short term and long term ???
Question 4) What is the relationship of Sunshine Empire and the rest of Empire Group, that are use for promotion during the recruitment of Merchants into Sunshine Empire ???
Question 5) If Sunshine Empire is an individual company that offer a business system (eg. products & services) that are profitable to it’s Merchants for long term, then why is there a need
market other Empire Group’s business, that are no related to the products and services of Sunshine Empire ???
November 26th, 2007 at 2:56 am
Hmmm anyway all these project mentions are all only having the ground breaking ceremony, base foundation when?.
After the ground breaking, what? Growing
Larang grass first?
Isn’t the Malacca Empire Villa suppose to start work after 2 months from SEP, hmmm Malacca government had no ideas about this project till now isn’t it?
The Malacca site even till now still have no main contractor = no work started.
There are lots of “Ghost Buildings” and “Addict Heaven” in Malaysia too.
Such “Phenomenon” are however acceptable, since building approval is easy granted.
Unlike in Singapore, If you started off a building projects, you will have to finish it by hook or by crook.
The leading project company will mostly has
1. A Legal Registered Company Name.
2. Palace like Office Set Up in Major City.
3. Grand Ground Breaking Ceremonies with Notorious PM Visited.
4. Various Professionals Constructions Consultant Agencies.
5. Famous Main Contractor in Leading Countries Projects.
Sadly, such company will abandon the project and run aways with millions of dollars, they either got it from down payment or from clueless “Investors” ~
Even though sometimes is because of unforeseen “Economic Crisis”.
So in the end, what do you get?
if you’re unlucky, a nice ground with foundation beams for a good indoor soccer match.
if you’re lucky, a top floor pent house sea view apartment with no rooftop.
My advice, wait for the building open ceremony, then we conclude.
else is another 爛尾樓 !!!!
November 26th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Mr. Matthew Tan
I agreed with you my friends were there too, very impressive. Are you a
sunshine merchant and do you read malay? When SE people claimed this is an official government letter and try to convince people in other forums that
is where the firework starts. I still do not believe it is written by the Chief Minister himself.
November 26th, 2007 at 12:39 am
*Malacca Chief Minister Officiating At Ground-Breaking Ceremony Was Witnessed by Thousands*
The Malacca Chief Minister personally officiated at the Malacca Sunshine Villa project’s ground-breaking ceremony in September 2007.
The event was witnessed by over 3000 Sunshine Empire’s “merchant” members, and we have many photographs to prove it. Some of the photos show the Chief Minister on stage, and some show him on a tractor officiating the ground-breaking ceremony. The minister was driving the tractor - the type of tractor used in building construction.
Anyone can approach any of your friends who are ACTIVE members, get a 4G thumb-drive and copy all those photographs, and many other information and video clips.
Alternatively, go to the HDB Hub office 7th Storey, and ask one of the guys to show you the photographs. You should have no problem meeting some of the guys who are eye-witnesses of the entire ground-breaking ceremony.
If you read Chinese, get hold of the Malaysian Chinese magazine “The Entrepreneur” Issue No. 71, which devotes over 20 pages to the Malacca, KL, and Sabah projects. The magazine also shows a photograph of the Malacca’s Chief Minister on the tractor officiating the ground-breaking ceremony.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Hi,
I am a Malaysian and was recently (actually 3 weeks ago) introduced to Sunshine but haven’t joined as a member yet. What stopped me was the negative press that I have been reading ever since I decided to do some research on Sunshine before I make up my decision.
When I came across this blog, I must admit I have even greater doubts now though I will still harbour the hope that all these negativity will be over once the SG CAD clears Sunshine. Why I harbour this hope is because the person who introduced Sunshine to me really earned a lot of money and I love to have that too!
This I address to post #89… Mr Jimmy, is it possible that the “letter” is actually the speech given by the Chief Minister during the ground breaking ceremony? I did saw some pictures of the said Minister at Sunshine’s ground breaking event. However what I dont understand is this… if it is the speech then why is it dated 1st Nov instead of 11th Sep which is the ground breaking date?
This I address to anyone who may have answers… I contacted some friends in Indonesia since apparently Sunshine is very active there and ask whether they heard about Sunshine or not. What I got from my friends are quite startling. They told me that back in 2002 to 2004 there was a company in Indonesia called Probest which apparently have similar business model like Sunshine. At their height, Probest was taking in millions of USD a day! Somehow, the Indonesia government found them to be illegal and a lot of members lost money. The boss apparently was charged but somehow managed to elude authorities and is in hiding now. The most startling fact was this.. my friends told me that this Indonesian named Borhan something was actually a partner of James Phang in NOP, one of the earlier reincarnation of Sunshine. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
thanks for reading my post!
November 25th, 2007 at 12:28 am
Re: Chief Minister of Malacca letter.
as for no. 2) I meant no file ref no.
and not no serial no.
4) Whoever wrote this letter has a poor
command of Malay.
5) The opening greeting is not appropriate for official government letter. It is meant for prayer greeting usually reserve for muslim.
November 25th, 2007 at 12:06 am
Re: Chief Minister of Malacca letter.
1) Anyone can verify this letter with Ketua Menteri Office in Melacca.
2)No letterhead, no serial no., no seal
and when did you ever see the chief minister photo on an official letter.
3)Anyone who has seen their government
letter will straight away know it is a fake.
November 24th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
Have all the SE members considered how SE really generate their income?
Great talks & impressive presentations are never the justification nor evidence for SE’s income model.
In fact, the sole SE’s income model is generated via NEW SE members paying their hard-earned money to SE, which in turn SE passes the money back to EXISTING SE members via their monthly cheques.
Let me ask you…how can this “income model” ever work? If you are talking about investing your hard-earned money in Singtel or Creative or Osim or etc, at least we know that they really possess sensible income model.
SE members, pls understand that this is a wake up call. Pls do not ask your friends or anyone else to part away their hard-earned money. Those POTENTIAL SE members, pls wait for CAD’s outcome before you take any hasty actions with your hard-earned money. Not worth it my friend!
November 24th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Hi Jimmy (Post 84),
Could you justify your statement on the “fake” letter because it is a federal offence especially targetted at a Head of State in a country.
This is very serious.
November 24th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
So will Sunshine Empire get into deep trouble?
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Mr. Matthew Tan Yew Hock
Do you know that the letter from Chief
Minister of Malacca dated 1 November
2007 is a fake.
November 22nd, 2007 at 9:03 am
I salute you if you feel nothing about your “loss” as in the beginning you said it is money you are prepared to risk losing.
November 22nd, 2007 at 8:58 am
Mr Low, does that mean that you will not get paid too? Are you angry about it? Did CAD contact you or did you hear it from the SE mgt. Did you ever try to seek a refund, or are you marginalised because of your blogging about SE? (I am sure SE is aware of your blog on their acivities.)
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:04 am
*News about Empire Property in Malaysian Newspapers*
I just cannot stand all the nonsense in some local newspapers.
This is my real name, and I have nothing to hide, unlike some people here.
I must be a busybody, since I cannot do sales here.
Malaysian newspapers Malay and Chinese, and a letter from the Malacca Chief Minister. Also, video/audio clip from Malaysian TV news.
http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/news1.html
16日11月2007
帝国产业集团首创狮首海上度假屋（东方日报）
16日11月2007
联盟公司被列入警惕名单，甲帝国产业工程无关联（南洋商报）
15日11月2007
联盟公司被列入警惕名单，无关帝国产业甲工程(中国报）
12日11月2007
在KUB.com招开记者招待会（图）
19日10月2007
帝国集团发展海洋主题公园 (南洋商报)
16日10月2007
帝国与Cash Support签协议书 (中国报）
06日10月2007
帝国与Cash Support签协议书 (星洲日报）
Press Conference Broadcast on TV channel (Malay ver, Mandarin ver, English ver
03 Nov 2007
Selamat Datang kepada Y.A.B. Datuk Seri Utama Abdullah bin Haji Ahmad Badawi dan Y.A. BHG Datuk Seri Utama Jeanne Abdullah ke Majlis Sambutan Hari Raya Aidilfitri Negeri Melaka (Melaka Hari Ini)
29 Okt 2007
Setinggi-tinggi Tahniah kepada T.Y.T Tun Datuk Seri Utama Mohd Khalil Bin Yaakob Sambutan Hari Jadi Ke-69 (Melaka Hari Ini)
16 Okt 2007
Menunggu Taman Tema Mega Berharga RM400j (Kosmo)
11 Okt 2007
Taman Tema RM400j di Melaka (Berita Harian)
08 Okt 2007
Empire Worldwide Bina Taman Marina RM400 juta (Utusan Malaysia)
05 Okt 2007
Taman Tema RM400 juta Dibina di Klebang Besar (Melaka Hari Ini)
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:28 am
I just got news that CAD freezed SE’s accounts and members will not get paid until further notice.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 am
The truth better be out soon, so that the matter does not snowball further and sucked more innocent people into the saga.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:17 am
Learnt that some of the relatives of mine were somewhat involved in SE. Was told that every referral will give the referring agent $450, no wonder agents so willing to get their friends and relatives involved and run the risk of straining relationships. That’s really bad if and when the money stopped coming.
November 21st, 2007 at 6:02 pm
To Maxie:Posted November 20th
Please elaborate about your:
3)Did you know LKY forced down NTU…erm…so?
Just curious.
November 21st, 2007 at 4:31 pm
i love how the way Post #61 writes,
The public and unsophisticated investors do not understand how Sunshine Empire really works. (Regarding the CRP and CLP) It is not the general public nor any financial advisor who can comprehend, unless you’re a founder or any CEO of an MNC.
So you are trying to say a CFA cert. Financial advisor who is helping people to take care of millions of dollars wont be able to understand how sunshine empire works? this is truly entertaining. Who says a CEO or a Founder of an MNC would understand ecos better then a FA, and any CEO would gladly put all thier million worth of money, into SE if whatever they claim is true, just throw 100 million in and you dont even have to suffer the risk of a bad market.
And from the looks of it, you seem like you understand how SE work, so you are a CEO of which MNC?
MLM does works overseas, but SE don’t appear solid and while i have friends inside who are earning money, my personal advise is “get in fast, get out faster; after you get your money”
Like my friend used to say, if your product is good enough, why cant you just sell it through the normal retail way? why use MLM, maybe next time Breadtalk or sakae sushi can sell thr mlm also.
and #74 so what makes you think that by going down to SE will allow you to know all the truth, the kettle never call itself black, whatever info they gonna feed to you would be 100% positive to them. it’s like the newspaper in a lot of countries, they are partly controlled by the government, don’t just believe whatever somebody says.
The best source of info on performance will be base on past performance, and experience, and frankly saying, it’s very bad. yeah yeah yeah i know, you all will say SE is not owned by James Phang, but don’t you all understand how company works, it’s like how TriCom runs KFC, PizzaHut, and TacoBells, how all the Ciggi in singapore is from the own company but diff name.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:06 am
Recent news and report on Sunshine empire that they are being black-listed by MAS http://www.moneysense.gov.sg/check_our_list/Consumer_Portal_IAL.html
This investigation by The Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) confirm that the dealings of the company are very vague. http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cna/20071113/tap-311286-231650b.html
Formerly known as NTI(niutrend international).I use to be a member, and has seen the company inconsistency in their policy, from many different types of Plan. Before that, James Phang has a company named NOP (Number 1 product) which got bankrupted due to some policy plans they were involved.
Please correct me of any wrong posting.
I believe the MAS has a reason to advise the public from dealing with any risk investment with sunshine empire.
November 21st, 2007 at 1:10 am
Why u all Discussing all this here? Maybe all Wrong? Make a trip down to the company yourself to know more about it. LoL u guys r guessing all the Questions & making me laugh!
November 20th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Monday, November 19, 2007
Latest Sunshine Empire news
http://kangaroos-corner.blogspot.com/2007/11/latest-sunshine-empire-news.html
Amazing, amazing, the signs are there, yet people still refuse to believe what has been reported. They still held a firm belief in Sunshine Empire. Here is a minimise newspaper clipping from The New Paper published on 19 November 2007:
.
THE affairs of some companies linked to Sunshine Empire have come under the spotlight again, this time in Taiwan. An ‘affiliated company’ of Sunshine Empire, Empire Communications Technology (Emcom), has claimed on its website that it plans to invest more than $20million in a broadband project there. The company, whose registered office is at the Toa Payoh Hub, has ‘invested heavily into Taiwan’ to build ‘a seamless wireless broadband that will cover more than 95 per cent of the city of Taichung’. It claimed that the project will be completed by the end of this year. However, a check with the Information Management Section of the Department of Planning of the Taichung City Government showed no evidence of this. Ms Huang Hui-Ming, chief of the section, told The New Paper on Sunday that Emcom does not have any partnership with the Taichung City government. She said the company had never contacted its department regarding the broadband project. Ms Huang noted that while it is true that the city’s government plans to build a wireless Internet network, it is part of a project proposed by the Industrial Development Bureau of Taiwan’s Ministry of Economic Affairs. And this government-initiated project is being handled by Asia Pacific Telecom Group (APTG). Ms Huang said: ‘After contacting APTG about Emcom, we understand that EmCom is not involved in the government-funded M-Taichung project. (So, what exactly is EmCom doing in Taiwan??)
.
Empire Property Venture, is supposedly involved in, including a Malacca Empire Marine Theme Park and A Magic Kingdom theme park in Sabah. The authorities in Malacca and Sabah had earlier told The New Paper on Sunday that they have no information on the existence of these projects. When contacted, the Mayor of the Malacca City Council, Datuk Zaini Md Nor, said that to date, they had not received any proposals for such a theme park there. He added that he had received an application in August for the approval of a plan by Empire Property Venture to build a commercial and residential building of 510 units on 0.87 ha of land (slightly larger than a football field). But this project has not been approved. (No such projects have taken place, no showrooms available, and yet they are marketing it, all sold to their own members. Don’t you find it fishy? For all you know, these are all just words said by Sunshine Empire?)
.
She also said there were units available for a higher-end project in Kuala Lumpur called the Empire State Tower. However, a check with the City Hall of Kuala Lumpur revealed that no such project is in the works at present. A spokesman said: ‘City Hall Kuala Lumpur has not received any application for a property to be developed at Jalan Tun Razak called the Empire State Tower.’ (No application have been processed, and (if) they are already building it, its illegal.)
Taken from another blog, while I surfing more about SE.
November 20th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
To Post 61.
Please don’t sprout nonsense and shoot yourself in the foot.
You say it is NOT an investment entity and yet they give returns?
Please do not solicit for members here.
Hang Wei, if post 61 recruits anyone, you should forward all details to the CAD.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:51 am
Regarding DSAS, Do you see LFI or Venture Era in the list of members? guess not. So Are they ILLEGAL? GUESS NOT again. SO…WHOever said that to do MLM you have to be Associate of DSAS?!
Its like saying i need to be part of the badminton association before i can play badminton LEGALLY. just joking.
anw,
Please do your homework my dear forum poster. In order not to mislead others. =)
-peace-
November 20th, 2007 at 1:47 am
1)Please go to their website.
2)By the way… You do not need to be in DSAS to do MLM…
3)Did you know LKY forced down NTU…erm…so?
4)No he doesnt own SE. He owns EGA which SE is a subsidiary of.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:12 am
I refer to #61 by A Happy Sunshine Empire Member:
What are the so called projects? None of them can and have been verified. I’ve got contacts in KL and they said so too.
Take in consideration Melaka, its just a small city. A resort would surely bring immense tourism into the city. BUT there is absolutely no news whatsoever on it, not even on property forums which I frequent. All “news” on projects cannot be found anywhere except on SE related websites.
Most of the so called projects had taken off yet, so where does SE get all its income? Your dare say Emall/emcall brings all the revenue currently?
SE used to pride with arrogance that it’s not a scam since it’s not being investigated by CAD. Now it is.
SE used to shun questions about the returns stated, by saying that they’ve “got a great leader, it is possible”. Such shallow arguements, even resorting to flamming people on other forums, this is such a lowly and uncorporate act. Truly reflects badly on EGA/SE.
November 20th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Believe it or not, I have seen other form of investment that give greater returns than SE.
Using more or less the same marketing plan. It is real, logical & achievable.
Amazingly, they even have license to collect funds and insurance to protect capital layout.
Returns???
85% to 100% pa (pay out quarterly) for at least 30 years??
I won’t mention the co. name because I am an investor of both co.
At the end of the day… if the owner wants to run away with our money… no matter how real & logical or how stable the company is, it makes no difference.
November 19th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
To 61, A Happy Sunshine Empire Member
Read the updates at
http://www.thelocalking.com/singapore/miscellaneous–others…/sunshine-empire.html
The newspapers seem to show that the investments are empty shell.
Have you personally verified your claims?
I like the part where you wrote this down
“… *All above-written, if any, is incorrect, Sunshine Empire official documents shall supersede the above mentioned. …”
Why don’t you just produce the official documents and save us this merry-go-round hassle, and please, I hate companies that change policy at their whim and fancy without any concensus or board meetings…
November 19th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Refer to comment#61
You said: “If their [Sunshine] investment is lucrative, they can give us a lump sum of money. (This is what Sunshine Empire gives for the benefit of their members.”
I think that is the whole problem. I don’t think a Sunshine is allowed to do investment. A MLM/network Marketing company do not do investment.
You presented a tailored reply, which do not reflect the true ground conditions of what is being said on the ground, or what has been discussed here.
November 19th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
hi hang wei,
i recently joined se due to my bestfriend’s persistence.i know it wasn’t a very wise thing to do especially when i still had my doubts abt the organisation.i am truly disappointed by the unethical methods she used to get me into the company.she left out the fact that it was a mlm company that she was trying to lure me into.it was only later when i attended one of their meetings that i realised that all se’s members were taught how to con their friends down to the office the same way my friend had used on me, for an seemingly attractive and lucrative presentation.toying with the notion that i could make a quick buck plus the pressure from my “bestfriend” i agreed to it.
despite being in the company for already a month,i am still unsure if i made the right decision.standing on neutral ground,i would like to point out a few things.
se is not an investment company as it offers products like emcall and emall when anyone invests.if it is a scam, i would have to say that it is an extremely brilliant one.because,no one can say that se is an investment company as it offers both products and services besides cash rebates.hence,it is not an investment company.
secondly,saturation of the spore market is possible that is why se is expanding onto foreign land.
yes,the organisation relies heavily on the public’s financial support and overseas projects to sustain its growth and customer rebates (correct me if im wrong)but i think that mas and cad will only be able to pin se down when they find a loophole, but se has so far managed to cover their tracks pretty well.
my only concern is that the projects overseas are not legally approved, as reported in the news. on the other hand, the media has the tendency to blow matters up- what has been reported in malaysia differs from the spore’s news.i was told that the mayor got a earful from the state minister for stating that the projects overseas weren’t approved.does sound amusing to me.
lastly,is it actually illegal to practise the ponzi scheme? anyhow, do leave me a comment in regards to my uncertainties if possible.
thanks for your time,hang wei.
November 18th, 2007 at 5:08 am
i hv to state tt i’m siding on neither side. i had been to SE couple of times, be it tanjong pagar or tao payoh. I do admit their offer was a great temptation.
few questions for those who are supporters of SE:
1) do you know how does MULTI LEVEL MARKETING(MLM) works?
-it’s consider illegal to do without a product, what’s SE product?
2) hv anyone read on the terms and conditions of DIRECT SALES ASSOCIATION OF SINGAPORE(DSAS)?
- a company need to register before starting.
3) do you know the past history of JAMES PANG?
-he used to be well known for his magical kingdom in INDO.
4) last but not least, are you sure tt JAMES PANG is afilliated or the director of SE? or someone named JACKY WU?
November 17th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
By one month times , sunshine empire will be closing down by CAD. Those member fund will be gone
November 17th, 2007 at 3:35 am
I refer to comment 47.
In my personal opinion,
I believe there is a reason for pressuring the people to sign the contract when they are below the age of 18.
I would also like to add on to the fact that under the age of the majority, which is 21, you are considered a minor. Generally speaking, the contract cannot be enforced on a minor. Except for the sales of “necessary” supply of goods and services. There are Minor’
“Necessary” would come into the question the nature of the goods/services and the person’s lifestyle.
It’s not that companies don’t enter into a contract with minors but majority minors do not know their rights and hence, they enter into the contract thinking the terms are enforeable against them.
It is just like theme parks or zoo when they have exclusion clause whereby organizations excludes liability from personal injuries and death resulting from the usage of their facilities. It is not valid under the Unfair Contract Terms Act. People do not know their rights hence they assume it is valid.
I’ve not seen the full contractual terms and shall not make any judgement. However, in any case, in reply for comment 38. Even if you had made the contract, based on the facts you’ve provided, it would be made under undue influence. Hence it is voidable.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:29 am
I’ve read much comments here. The public and unsophisticated investors do not understand how Sunshine Empire really works. (Regarding the CRP and CLP) It is not the general public nor any financial advisor who can comprehend, unless you’re a founder or any CEO of an MNC.
1) Why it’s not registered with MAS?
Because it is a providing products and services while giving out rebates over time. Hence it is not an investment nor an alternative investment like properties, wine investments, or other such investments.
2) Why it’s in the “Investor Alert List” both in MAS (Singapore) and SCA (Malaysia)?
Because it is not registered with MAS or SCA. And it’s business has attracted much of the public’s money into it thus indirectly affects other monetary business companies.
Today’s market is a globalized market, the money pool is not locally-limited. As such, this type of business is possible to generate such returns.
There’re products and services when any one sign up with Sunshine Empire as a consumer/merchant. These products and services are legitimate products and services.
By using one of Sunshine Empire’s client’s services: EmCall Callback Service, i’ve saved up about 30% of my mobile bills!
Product range is so wide just like eBay!
They even provide us with an online business platform to sell your items or buy items from other member’s online shop by using the Mall Points you have when you join or accumulated while using their Compensation Plan!
I pretty like and have confidence with Sunshine Empire! I’ve did my studies and analysis on its business model and the possible foresight on its businesses.
Sunshine Empire is just like any other businesses:
a) Businesses trade secrets are not necessarily be revealed to consumers.
Example:
If we buy a bowl of minced meat noodles, they give us back 50 cents (if they want as a rebate), we wouldn’t ask what they do with our money! It is their sales and they are free to invest their money to expand or grow their business.
If their investment is lucrative, they can give us a lump sum of money. (This is what Sunshine Empire gives for the benefit of their members. They can choose not to give such returns, since it’s not guaranteed, and is at the discretion of Sunshine Empire!)
There are people asking me if Sunshine Empire lasts?
I would say “Yes”, however there are always political or economic risks that even Sunshine Empire can’t control. From the fact, they have properties (Sunshine Empire branch), they have other projects that will soon be generating incomes for them, these will help sustain their business over time.
I would ask if any one would like to join, should also do their own analysis. However, as a pioneer, this is some information i can provide for your analysis.
*All above-written, if any, is incorrect, Sunshine Empire official documents shall supersede the above mentioned.
(This is what I think and felt as one of the pioneers of Sunshine Empire. Since every single trip they organized i had been to and witnessed everything, and of course the upcoming Genting Trip from 27th to 29th Nov! =D)
P.S. If any of you are interested to find out more, please attend their Business Introduction Programme held on Tuesday and Thursday about 7 to 8pm (There’s no obligation to join)
P.P.S. Open to enquiries.
Yours Truly
A Happy Sunshine Empire Member
November 17th, 2007 at 12:49 am
i think if sunshine business is really good.. why this company have to pay that high cost for it fund. Just go to bank and pay 10% per year and got money as much as it want for investment. Why need money from people and pay back in high rate. Don’t forget my friend, business is business. Investors want highest return (as you want) so the company will find the cheapest fund and get the highest profit. Sunshine is company not charity.. don’t forget
November 16th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
There is no reason to believe what sunshine empire members say, for the following logical reasons:
1. The members do not know much. Their main source of information is their upline, and their uplines obtain their information mainly from the people on top.
They are often blinded by the SE culture to see the truth. They are told to tell white lies and hide the truth to make the sale. It is part of their training, which runs contradictory to their company value of integrity.
2. For your information, sunshine did roll over some of the money in the three times return in March, though I am not too sure if they continue to do so. This was only made known to the higher people in the uplines, and only around 10% of the money is going to the project. Note that not all the money is going to Taiwan side. (How do you think they suddenly got s much money to build property and develop resorts.
3. This information is based on the fact that if you look at NTI (sunshine’s name before august 2006) ’s financial statement for 2005/06, you will notice that they were running at a bank debt of around $14,000, and a loss. How can they gather so much money to buy over companies and set up networks? /the truth? They are using your money.
4. You must also note that Sunshine has no concrete way of paying you back the money. They bought over China Prostar not merely because of a business advantage, but because EMCOM alone cannot go IPO (for it is still young and the profits are small), and they can use the public company to sell their risen shares in the coming future, (at the expense of share buyers) to pay you back your rebates. I understand that sunshine members were encouraged to buy China Prostar shares (seems like insider trading to me), and this will definitely lead to some rise in the shares. This means that people in Asia might buy their shares due to a false rise (caused not by market faith and trust in the management or other indicators good investors look out for in investing in a company) but by you guys, the sunshine people. They are probably going to buy into a losing company (note that Prostar has been losing money since two years back, and they continuously under-perform below the market average, indicating that there might be something wrong with the company itself). It seems wrong to invest in a losing company, and I will discourage it. It is interesting to note that since the buy-over was announced in march, the prostar shares took a huge dip! Refer to financial times and the HK gem to read the charts.
This seems like the market does not approve of the buy over. There is a chance of collapse, and when that happens, sunshine and emcom will be dragged down.
5. Note that EMCOM is a new startup, and do not make their own money. Claims of how they gained 2 million in 2 months are based on the emcall service you guys were paying. They are still probably running at a loss pumping so much money into the taiwan project.
6. James Phang might seem like a very prominent figure now, but arrogance might lead to his downfall. Consider how he lost money in NPO. While it is a common story that he took the rep for someone else, it might indicate a lack of judgment and foresight, or a lack of skill as a businessman. He is also involved with many other losses. Tolerance for failures aside, it is quite unknown if he has learnt his lessons. His recent arrogant remarks about being better than warrent Buffet, warrants our attention, because it shows a crude lack of respect, and might ignite public out cry and reactions.
7. The recent MAS crack down and closing in by the government warrants our attention again. Public outcry and reaction is always bad for sunshine regardless of what the upper management (Jacky) says. It brings SE in the public front, and hidden information that is detriment to the company’s health and the investor’s trust might be affected. Not all bad news is good news.
8. Please refrain from comments that sunshine is a very stable company. No company reaches stability. If you understand business, you will know that business is dynamic and affected by many factors. Sunshine, being only one years old, and heavily dependent on their own small market made up of their own closed doors users (and few public users) and your money, is not likely to succeed. NTI was a losing company which needed to changed because of poor management on james phang and the board members part, so I do not consider it a stable company.
9. There is only a small market (made up of you guys) to sustain the se business. THis is dangerous for any company in the long run. Please beware.
10. Finally, I would like to say that these comments were made out of respect for the members of SE. If you do not have the civility or ability to argue against these points, please bring them up to a good businessman, financial adviser, your upline or even upper management. I make these points out of my months of obbservation of the company. You may buy sunshine and nti financial statements from the ACRA, singapore’s portal for taxes and accounting. Ask someone to interpret it for you if you must, but make sure it is an unbiased source.
Thank you. And all the best.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
i just finished reading this blog and am very very concerned about the outcome of the investigation. a couple of days ago i met, sat down, and talked with some people from SE, along with my gf and her father. and yes, the people form SE were introduced to us by my gf’s father friend. they are very vague in explaining the details on how they calculate the returns of our “investment”. as it happened, my gf father made a transfer of a substantial amount to SE today and honestly, i hope he didn’t make a mistake. i really am looking forward to the outcome of this whole affair, which i assume will take several more months before any result will pop up.
November 16th, 2007 at 1:48 am
I just rejected a comment by Peter Pan, which basically shoots James. I rejected it simply because it contained vulgarities and was purely a one-line flame. I urge visitors not to waste their time posting insults or personal attacks using vulgar language as they will not be approved.
November 15th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
Watch the documentary on Channel 8 tomorrow, 10.30pm. See if can withstand public scrutiny or not.
November 15th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Simply put. SE work in this manner:
1. Greed
2. Cult like worship and total loyalty to founder
3. Prey on naive youth
4. Zero sum game. There is no value creation in the whole business model except using money to pay money.
As an investor myself, I have some simple questions:
1. What is the venture return that James Phang state that he is involved?
2. Anyone ask about those projects progress? Any quarterly financial result announcement to support his claim?
The answer is no because Ponzi do not allow questioning the founder. That is why, he claim people call him “Father” during the seminar.
Good luck to all his “children”.
November 15th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
I really had enough of reading about all the blogs and forums.
Recently it’s creating a big issue…. It’s enough of comments here and there
I am just being neutral and I just feel like posting some point of view.
For SE members: It’s good for protecting the company and explaining about the system.
I mean just don’t bother to explain anymore. As long as the self-conscious is clear just ignore about others comment. Don’t waste your time to explain anymore. Posting more comments to get yourself involve might make things worse. Silence is what you can do to help and support the company and fellow mates.
For Non-SE members: Right now the CAD is investigating. When time is ripe and results will be told.. So everyone just wait for the investigation result now.. Why bother to ‘help’ investigating from your own views? What do you know is truth or not? How can you assure whether your information is true?? Will you mislead others??
What will you get to comment?? What do you want to get involve for?
Dear everyone,
Just wait patiently for the official review
So everyone Don’t criticize, condemn or complain….
WORLD PEACE (everyone)!!!
November 14th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
I read this blog with great interest as the various contributors have put up a lot of information regarding SE and its practices and I’d just like to share my experience.
My first encounter with the company was when my ex-student called me to ask if I was free to meet up (after we had not kept in contact for months). I already had doubts when I found out she was only meeting me and not with my other ex-students and refused to tell me why.
My doubts were raised further as she brought me for a tour at the company at HDB Hub and raved on about how impressive the whole setup was before sitting down with me to talk about the so-called merchant schemes, which even before she brought up, had MLM written all over it already. She then brought her colleague to speak to me, who was obviously a lot more experienced as he quickly took me through all the various schemes and went on about how he’s making good money even though he’s young, blah blah blah.
Of course I already had serious reservations (We all know “if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is” but I listened patiently as my curiousity was piqued. The most interesting part to me was when I asked to see the contract that was supposed to be sign because obviously if it’s a potential scam then there might be some loopholes in the contract that may allow them to get away.
I vaguely remembered that there was no mention about the “rebates” being guaranteed though the person tried to assure me by saying that the people investing now are getting their money so that was my first point of contention.
However, the thing that really made me take notice though was as Shurin pointed out there was a clause that mentioned the person had to be at least 18 and my ex-student was 17 so I asked how could they allow her to sign up if it violated the contractual agreement, to which the guy quickly countered, “Why should we stop people from becoming rich just because they are young?”
That’s when I decided I had enough because in my opinion that smacks of a lack of morals and it just seemed like the company just wanted money and they were going to get it no matter what, even if it meant bending the rules to allow more people to join. Clearly, the age requirement is because young people may not know much about the world and they may lack the maturity (especially when it comes to financial management)thus their judgment can be very poor, especially with the promise of easy get-rich-quick schemes, peer pressure, and hard-selling by the merchants.
Things just didn’t add up and I advised her to be careful though I found out eventually she signed up for a GP for the expected great benefits when I told her I wasn’t comfortable with the whole thing.
I hope, at least for her sake and the many others who have ploughed in their savings into this, that the investigations will show that my insecurities were unfounded but reading the newspaper reports in recent weeks it seems that this whole affair could be fishier than it looks.
Sorry for the long post but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this!
November 14th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Yo!
Check out the report below!
The print version of the report (which differs slightly from the online version) states that some people have already requested for refunds in Malaysia, and that CASE has advised Singapore members to ask for refunds - this might jolly well cause a stampede of refund requests, leading to a possible collapse of the pyramid…
Assuming that Sunshine does indeed run a ponzi scheme, then presumably with a more “educated and aware” public, it would be more difficult for Sunshine’s agents to recruit more members; making it more difficult to replicate the explosive growth (and payouts) of preceding months …
http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Money/STIStory_176354.html?vgnmr=1
CAD begins probe into MLM firm Sunshine Empire
By Lorna Tan
THE Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) has begun investigation into the affairs of Sunshine Empire following reports of its controversial business practices.
A police statement on Tuesday, advising those who have invested in the company to wait for further updates from CAD, said they may be asked to help in the probe.
Barely 16 months into operations here, Sunshine was placed on the Monetary Authority of Singapore’s (MAS’) investor alert list in September.
This list names people or firms who may be conducting activities regulated by the MAS without authority.
On Oct 24, The Straits Times reported that the multi-level marketing firm had come under scrutiny because it appeared to be operating like a pure investment scheme, something it did not have the licence to do.
MAS has warned people against making investments with unregulated firms and individuals. And a new consumer alert has been issued to inform consumers about get-rich schemes that sound too good to be true.
Based at Toa Payoh HDB Hub, Sunshine has attracted 20,000 people here since it was set up last July.
The man behind Sunshine is Mr James Phang, 48, the founder,director and international president of Empire Group Alliance, a group spanning several Asian countries. Sunshine is part of the group, but Mr Phang does not own it.
MLM firms, which are legal here, typically invite people to pay cash for the right to market goods to other people. They also get cash for recruiting other MLM marketers.
Under Sunshine’s scheme, people usually put down $12,000 to become a ‘merchant’, as it calls users of its online shopping platform offering thousands of goods, including health supplements, lingerie and electronics goods.
After signing up, they can buy Sunshine’s online goods. But they are also rewarded with potentially hefty cash ebates, though these are not guaranteed. Merchants can build their own sales force as well.
The scheme is structured in such a way that participants are not required to use the rebates to buy Sunshine’s goods.
The cash rebates are based on Sunshine’s global turnover. The option of converting the rebates into cash only
makes Sunshine more attractive than other MLM firms where people must maintain sales quotas.
Sunshine also operates in Indonesia, Thailand, Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan, and has 50,000 merchants. It plans to expand to the United States by next year.
According to its marketing brochure, Sunshine projects global monthly turnover of US$100 million (S$146 million) for December.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
plz do note this : “Additionally, their customer rebate program sounds just like a Ponzi scheme, since it basically takes only 10% of membership fees to rebate current members.”
we do not take 10% of membership fees to rebate current members, we take 10% out of the emall platform, and also since a lot of things are cleared, plz do take down this site. it will just cause more trouble to the people in the company and cause more trouble to the media. Thank you