Sunshine Empire - Too Good To Be True?
Blogged By: Low Hang Wei @ October 2nd, 2007 - 4:38 pmIf you have heard of Sunshine Empire, then you would know of the insane returns that they have been projecting. While most of their merchants do acknowledge that these returns are not guaranteed, it does not change the fact that many people who buy into the program are expecting those returns. Many people are unaware of the potential risks of putting their money in a program like Sunshine Empire.
Firstly, the benefit illustration that their merchants are using in their presentations exceed a 100% annualized return, which is around three to five times the performance of top investors like Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch. That alone is enough ground for people to shout ‘too good to be true’. Additionally, their customer rebate program sounds just like a Ponzi scheme, since it basically takes only 10% of membership fees to rebate current members. In short, people who joined later are paying people who joined earlier. In order for a ponzi scheme to sustain, the amount of members need to grow at an exponential speed month after month. That alone is enough reason to drive rational investors away.
However, I recently decided to get a slot in Sunshine Empire and paid for the membership fees and GP fees of $11,800 just today.
Do I think that it’s a wise investment to make?
Not a chance, Sunshine Empire is not even recognised by MAS as an investment vehicle in the first place.
Would I refer anyone to put their money in Sunshine Empire?
Fat hope, why would I refer anybody to something that I do not think is a wise investment.
Why did I put my money in Sunshine Empire then?
- The desire to grow my money made me blind.
- While their customer rebate program sounds like a Ponzi scheme, their customer loyalty program does make a bit of sense. If you don’t know what these are, don’t bother to find out, since I do not recommend anyone to put their money in.
- This amount of money is what I made in investments for the year and I can afford to lose them.
Basically, the last point is the most important point. Never put your money in these type of schemes if you cannot afford to lose them. I sincerely feel that this whole thing is very risky, but I’m willing to take the risks. I don’t know about you, but my advice to anyone would be… stay away unless you are prepared to part with your money forever.
Blogged Under: Income Opportunities
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December 11th, 2007 at 8:10 am
Any MLM company can say their e-points worth thousands, millions, billions, trillions etc etc, as long as your bank account does not get the money…SE members do you understand or not?
December 11th, 2007 at 8:07 am
But those greedy latecomers are existing SE members’ friends…u call that faith or self-interest?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:06 am
So now a lot of issue.
Account Freezeeee…..
No refund and no payout???
http://www.cad.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/F2D11DE4-F96D-440B-96E3-FC5CBB98817C/18934/MLMFirmSunshineEmpireUnderProbe.pdf
Still show will payout, then account freeze???
I recently heard from a friend who want to refund but need to wait more than 20 days.
Did anyone have this problem?
But some still say they have got their payment till now..even after CAD investigate??
December 10th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Holding cash or Faith?
Wish one you now prefer?
Money or Faith? *This is not an issue about religion*
Now is Money speaks louder than words and pictures cause there is NO ACTION.
All are just WAYANG.
Seeing is believing? No way ! Not until you are holding back all your very hard earn cash onto your own hand….not some e-points that are worthless in the eyes of the bankers.
If you had already break even, nothing wrong to stay put carry on ripping off those greedy latecomers.
Good Luck
December 10th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
just ask if Mr Low gets his payment or not then we’ll know
December 10th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Ming, we will be waiting for your concrete proof of cash in your bank account…and can we ask, how much money & effort you put in SE in order to get the payment…worth it?
Also, can you enlighten how SE generate their income? from your friends’ money? from your downlines’ money?
December 10th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
why does everyone think mlm is an investment scheme ?
December 10th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
BREAKING NEWS.
Saw this in 3 forums, thelocalking,
sgforums & hardwarezone forum.
Quote:
SSE IS A SCAM,A FRAUD AND LIARS.
CAD did not freeze Sunshine Empire bank
A/C. They can continue their daily
transactions, make payments and refund
the investors.
Anyone can call the CAD office tel:
65573918 to verify & confirm.
What SSE say about CAD does not come
from CAD. They have no respect of the law.
The media should be informed and exposed SSE lies so that anyone who
wish to withdraw or refund can do so.
My guess is if there is a massive
withdrawal SSE will have to close
down and all their uplines will have
the commission clawback.
Unquote:
Sunshine Empire can resort to this then it should not exist at all.
December 10th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Red coloured stone,
Do you know where insurance companies or banks place or invest our money into? - you will know if you follow Dr money’s articles..
Banks and insurance companies don’t have big projects but where they get so much money to invest? - this qns is common sense..
How transparent is sunshine empire?
How much do you know about sunshine empire?
Don’t know? then don’t just sit down at your computer and ask open ended questions.. you want a definite answer, you go to the office and get your mind cleared from sunshine empire..
its quite obvious that you’re just targeting sunshine empire.. non of your comments about sunshine is positive..
you’ve heard one side of the story, what about the other side?
December 10th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
thats what Mr Low did, he took initiative, find out, and placed his bets.. so he might have comments on sunshine empire to share..
as for the rest, be it members or non-members, please find out and get your facts right.. i better not take sides, neutral =)
December 10th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
why talk so much as if most of you had placed your monies inside.. =/.. members that are facing the risks might worry, some might not..
i mean its not the non-members business and they talk alot, as if they had placed 1million dollars.. and provided that they are not at risk LOL..
why not place your money first then talk.. scared? don’t dare? then don’t talk so much!
don’t understand anything? go and find out!
not here, not anywhere, but the office..
maybe those non-members that talk alot can talk to james phang in office if they’re lucky.. take initiative.. why hide behind a computer screen and talk so much?..
take actions, find out more from james phang himself..
he’s always around..
December 10th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Don’t be skeptical that we won’t believe if you can show concrete proof.
Like, where does SE pump all its money into to get such high returns when none of their projects had taken off yet?
December 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Well, don’t assume I won’t believe if you can produce credible evidence. Don’t be skeptical. Post the proof.
Why does SE gets such high returns when none of the projects had taken off yet?
December 10th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Skeptics are skeptics. Even if they are shown proof, they choose to be blind! You can be 1000% sure that it will be translated into cold cash with the next few days. Ha! Ha! Ha!
December 10th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
In short, show me the money in your bank account ???
December 10th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Ming (post #130), do US730.26 per GP mean anything?
Your bank account get this payment or not?
Any MLM company can easily give US1M per GP, as long as your bank account does not get this payment at all…
December 10th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Mr Low, so you received your money too as per post# 131? If so, you did get back one payment so far. If not, please comment.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
It seems that Phang Wah is not James Phang’s real name.
His original name is Phang Hock Chin. He had since changed it legally to Phang Wah, after the court case where he tried to scam Leong Hwa Chan Si Temple. He lost the lawsuit.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Just received the latest rebate for Nov from SSE. US730.26 per GP. Thank you SSE!
Skeptics are skeptics. They are losers!
December 10th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Wake Up Call, the agents are too brainwashed to use logic in this case. Some MLMs are almost like a cult group.
Instead of giving us official figures and statistics on financial returns and business plans, they give motivational statements, so typical of scams.
December 9th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Red stone, dun you understand, they are now too busy to ask for refund, but SE could not release any funds. They are now sitting on the fence, on one hand is the reality, on the other hand is their seniors persuading them to stay on & do not ask for refunds.
December 9th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Could any of the very loyal SE agents tell me what’s so great about James Phang?
Are you aware his previous projects all projects failed? Remember Magic Kingdom?
Follow your enthusiasm in the earlier posts over here, Oct 2007 and answer my questions.
Stop diverting topics and childish remarks and no motivational crap.
December 9th, 2007 at 11:56 am
in China, if the people are divided or majority interests are compromised, the complaints of the masses will force govt to execute those guilty of serious crimes.
December 9th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Actually SE members have the responsibilities to answer to their friends whom they bring into SE & allow SE to “psycho” them. Those friends will most probably lose their hard-earned money just like that…
December 9th, 2007 at 2:03 am
Found this at localking forum.
Quote: “SSE BRANCHES ARE STILL
OPERATIONAL. By osama.
PAYMENTS: With a laptop, bank a/c and
with epoints in your account you can
withdraw money anywhere in the world.
This method is used by SSE Managers.
Who are the priveledged few what is
the selection criteria I don’t know.
The hundreds of millions of $ collected
through the sales of GPs is outside
Singapore and all SSE branches are
operational. All this is plan in
advance.” Unquote.
I wonder what our CAD & CPIB are doing.
December 9th, 2007 at 1:12 am
Wake Up Call:
I’ve had, since even before the “I am better than Buffett” saga, asked where does SE pump money into, why none of the projects can be proven. Up til now no one had offered any satisfactory answer other than diverting the topic, giving some lame excuse or some motivational statement about how “great” Phang is.
I’ve heard hilarious statements like “under a great leader anything is possible” to “because the projects are private”. In any project that involves setting up any infrastructure or building, etc… approval is needed by govt. Else it would be considered illegal, private or govt.
Also notice how SE doesn’t do external mainstream advertising? If SE advertises in mainstream media or financial/property journals…
Lastly… SE is a newly start up company, with no experience in any sector other than MLM. And yet they dare start up such a big project as their first project. Not many companies do that, even with advisors at hand.
The initial costs. Cost of land in central KL and Malacca, construction costs. Cost of setting up wireless infrastructure… All the grand offices… ALL AT ONCE. The costs of all these might very well exceed the total worth of the company itself. If they were to proceed with the underwater hotel thing, engineering and construction costs alone can run up to the few hundred million dollars. And are they 101% confident ALL of the “projects” would reap a profit?
So I question what assets the company has. If the project fails, how? All the money gone. Bye bye. Some companies have easily liquidable assets to generate the cash in case they run into financial trouble or the projects fail. What about SE?
Phang has extremely bad reputation here, with NOP, NTI and Magic Kingdom. And yet unbelievably there are still people who believe in him, worshipping him. This is really freaky. Now that his reputation here is pretty much ruined, it seems he’s expanding SE overseas to Indon and M’sia. He’s one sly guy.
December 9th, 2007 at 1:04 am
why let such a mysterious company divide our people, think about it!
December 8th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
Red stone, i know…SE pumps money into renting BIG office, IMPRESSIVE office renovation…and SE gets great returns!
December 8th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
SE has pumped money into projects that are bleeding. How to pay back? Their wireless not charging any money yet, their China Photar investment is bleeding…
bleeding everywhere, how to earn to pay back investors?
December 8th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Yes Matthew. Can you tell me where SE pumps its money into to get such high returns when none of their projects had taken off?
December 8th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Matthew, even if put real names, so ???
By putting real names do not justify anything. We are discussing about subject matter, not discussing names.
If your choice is to discount what we are commenting, that is your choice & at the end of the day, you bear the consequences…simple.
If you have already put in your hard-earned money into SE, it is time you really think it is feasible or not? Can you ask for refund first? Take back your hard-earned money is of most priority…you will not want to lose all your hard-earned money right?
December 8th, 2007 at 8:00 am
i have something to say to all SE merchants.. 100% belief my brothers & sisters! 100%.. not even 99.99%.. if not, dont be a merchant of SE.. shoudn’t be in SE if you have no belief in SE..
December 8th, 2007 at 1:06 am
So Yew Hock,
What so big deal about putting down real name, if none of you SE Merchants can refute what is being shown here?
Which 4 biggest proclaim projects have been taken place now?
Has the application for the constructing tower @ KL been submitted yet?
What has happened to Taiwan Wi-Max Project?
December 7th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
What’s so great about Phang Wah that you’re defending him?
December 7th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Yew Hock, why are you defend SE? What benefit does it bring you?
December 7th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
If you people dare not put down your real names, then I will simply discount what you said here.
December 7th, 2007 at 2:33 am
SSE. DREAM PROPERTY PROJECTS.
By abductboy. Beautiful Google earth
photos and very interesting comments.
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=276414&page=61
December 4th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
We should be practical & should not take short cut. Work smart, but also must work hard. Be it for your career or for your business. Right?
December 4th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
SE is facing a crisis now…CAD checking on them…a total breakdown of their sole income model of new SE members contributing their hard-earned money…haiz
December 4th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
If SE is so great, why don’t I see them advertising in newspapers and big magazines about it? Haha
December 2nd, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Isn’t it worrying that there is an organisation out there which has 20,000 paying members at its bid and calling built based on money and can mobilise people to turn in family & friends, subject them to potential risk and loss.
December 2nd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Dear all SE members, pls do not risk your hard-earned money, ask for your deserved refunds from SE (even if SE bank account is frozen, SE claimed that it is business as usual, and it also means able to refund as usual…right?)
Dear those potential SE members, pls wait for further update from CAD. Believe you rather absorb the inflation (money in your bank) than invest in “scam” & lost all your money?
December 2nd, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Hello fellow netizens, before i go on let me first say that the opinions i post are completely my own and I do not speak for anyone other than myself. Feel free to flame me all you want either and you do not have to believe a word i say either. I decided to post here because I too am frustrated with SE.
In the last few months before the CAD investigation, I actually met up with James Phang, ignious Yong and Jacky Hoo for some possible business collaboration. This was before all the negative press that the company was getting and when i first arrived at Emcom one thing i noticed was how young everyone was. The MD was only 25 or something like that and he acted his age too. Kinda arrogant i might add. Im in my early 30s but these upper management guys were all younger than me. I have nothing against age but I had a hard time believing this kid barely out of college is heading all these multi million dollar projects all over the world. anyway he offered to intro JP to me as well so i went and MAN! sunshine’s office is huge! And elaborately decorated in imperial gold colors and had Lion paintings and symbolism everywhere. this guy was on an obvious power trip and must see himself as some kind of emperor, hence the empire name.
Ok on to the meeting. my first impression was this guy is a lau beng. hes like an ahbeng fast forwarded til he was 50 and thats what he looks like. He was wearing an expensive looking power suit and had one bad eye. kinda reminded me of a james bond villain knock off asian style. anyway he was still in a meeting so i had to wait but i could see him because he had a transparent glass wall adjacent to his office.
To me it seemed like JP was the father and Ignious(md of emcom) and jacky were his sons. so JP is emperor, and his 2 princes JH and IY. IY was the obvious younger one and he was prancing around foolishly trying to amuse his “father” while JH was just agreeing to everything JP said. It was kinda farce-like. I felt like i was in some bad soap drama. And these guys were actually refering to JP as Lau da, felt like i was talking to the mafia. anyway barely weeks after, all this hoohah started and its all history now. needless to say we didnt start anything with them but i just wanted to share my experience which was 10 minutes with the King.
Peace
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Might be interesting to note the glaring errors in SE’s websites promoting their properties.
In the promo video of the Malacca theme park, the site is actually wrong, or so i was told. And the site for the tower in KL is always changing. From Changkat Raja Chulan to Jalan Tun Razak.
December 1st, 2007 at 8:48 pm
For those who do not want to risk still abale to ask for refund as indicated by their head….
News article show..
http://www.cad.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/F2D11DE4-F96D-440B-96E3-FC5CBB98817C/18934/MLMFirmSunshineEmpireUnderProbe.pdf
November 30th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Is already mentioned on TV that SE is not under MAS regulation. Members will not be protected if SE is really a scam.
November 30th, 2007 at 6:57 am
Harry, Please check with CAD website:
http://www.cad.gov.sg/topNav/hom/
They have a FAQ for Sunshine Empire
Pte Ltd.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
I read this blog with extreme interest and concern. I know about the existence of SE for quite some time as some of my friends are previously involved in NTI. During the NTI days, I have some serious friction with these 2 friends of mine who insisted that I have misinterpreted what their company do (I was previously conned down to the NTI office once by another friend who, thankfully, sorted his thoughts out and quited NTI soon after). I know what they do and I didn’t like the idea or recruiting new members in and getting them to buy their products and then getting even more members and stuff. I guess pple get attracted to it because they do not have to do sales (other MLM health care products are very difficult to sell). But come to think of it, their scheme is equivalent to doing sales. They just try to conceal it in another form.
Fast forward to last month. I was staring at my savings and was thinking of what I should do with them. Leaving them in the bank to rot isn’t at all a good option. That was when I was introduced to this ‘investment’ plan that SE was offering. Note that my friends didn’t really tell me that it was an investment. I made it a point to tell them that I do not want to get involved into recruitment and stuff. I just want to look for an investment opportunity. Apparently, it was possible. I was introduced to how EGA and SE works, where their income is from and their supposed projects. They also mentioned that there are many pple like me, looking for investment opportunities and do not want to be involved with recruitment and stuff.
Perhaps I didn’t think too much and I signed for a GP shortly thereafter. Well, at least it is better than rotting in the bank, I thought. I was considering that since they can survive in this line for a good few years, it must be credible (even though I didn’t verify it myself. I trusted them a lot). I must stress that I didn’t intend to make big bucks out of it or to become a full time merchant. I got my rebate very timely last month and was quite happy with their reliability. Now with all these saga, I really feel like just getting a refund and not risk my funds further. With the freezing of their accounts (post 80) it now seems that getting a refund is not very likely.
In the eyes of the law, if SE is really a scam ( i am just thinking of the worst case scenario), will their members get protected? That would be a question that many would like to ask.
November 28th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
This letter is confirmed fake. Take a close look at the bottom, where the signature overlaps the typed words. There is a white border around the signature.
http://www.empirepropertyventure.co…sg_malakaCM.pdf
November 28th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Any idea the great costs of building property? Land at Jalan Tun Razak is going to cost tens of millions of dollars. And any idea how much it costs to build an underwater hotel? Few hundreds of millions, due to technological and engineering issues.
Ah Wah is building many projects overseas, ok fine. But why have I not see advertisements in newspapers here and overseas about it?
Where does Phang Ah Wah james get the money in the first place to even start construction works, esp if he’s only experienced in scamming ppl?
Where does SE get such high returns? Don’t say “under a great leader anything is possible”, please.