Sunshine Empire - Too Good To Be True?
Blogged By: Low Hang Wei @ October 2nd, 2007 - 4:38 pmIf you have heard of Sunshine Empire, then you would know of the insane returns that they have been projecting. While most of their merchants do acknowledge that these returns are not guaranteed, it does not change the fact that many people who buy into the program are expecting those returns. Many people are unaware of the potential risks of putting their money in a program like Sunshine Empire.
Firstly, the benefit illustration that their merchants are using in their presentations exceed a 100% annualized return, which is around three to five times the performance of top investors like Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch. That alone is enough ground for people to shout ‘too good to be true’. Additionally, their customer rebate program sounds just like a Ponzi scheme, since it basically takes only 10% of membership fees to rebate current members. In short, people who joined later are paying people who joined earlier. In order for a ponzi scheme to sustain, the amount of members need to grow at an exponential speed month after month. That alone is enough reason to drive rational investors away.
However, I recently decided to get a slot in Sunshine Empire and paid for the membership fees and GP fees of $11,800 just today.
Do I think that it’s a wise investment to make?
Not a chance, Sunshine Empire is not even recognised by MAS as an investment vehicle in the first place.
Would I refer anyone to put their money in Sunshine Empire?
Fat hope, why would I refer anybody to something that I do not think is a wise investment.
Why did I put my money in Sunshine Empire then?
- The desire to grow my money made me blind.
- While their customer rebate program sounds like a Ponzi scheme, their customer loyalty program does make a bit of sense. If you don’t know what these are, don’t bother to find out, since I do not recommend anyone to put their money in.
- This amount of money is what I made in investments for the year and I can afford to lose them.
Basically, the last point is the most important point. Never put your money in these type of schemes if you cannot afford to lose them. I sincerely feel that this whole thing is very risky, but I’m willing to take the risks. I don’t know about you, but my advice to anyone would be… stay away unless you are prepared to part with your money forever.
Blogged Under: Income Opportunities
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December 29th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
John, this is because SE’s only income model is scamming new Singaporeans to pump in their hard-earned money!
December 28th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
Hi recently I received a drastic drop in return (debate), the members claimed that due to sale dropping (no new members pumping in money).
I wonder if SE has so many projects, the amount of return from these projects should be able to sustain the business, it should not affect by the reason of no new member joining in.
December 28th, 2007 at 7:48 am
Be it emcom is a scam or not, SE is going downhills!
December 28th, 2007 at 1:13 am
I would be more afraid if EMCOM project exists… As it is now, with that company running, they are already bleeding to death (same for China Photar which EMCOM acquired in August, bleeding…)
They will be pouring in money, with very little return…
The wide-area wireless biz is a very cut-throat biz with high barriers of entry.
You can be assured that EMCOM will kena makan by bigger fish, based on current market capitalization of EMCOM
December 27th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
hey i read somewhere about the emcom project in taiwan was a scam. is it true? i read in an article that the wireless city project really exist but the project was not run by emcom.
December 27th, 2007 at 4:53 am
Hang Wei:
Paiseh… what do you mean type something before the URL?
Hmm there’s this guy defending SE in a civil manner on Hardwarezone forums, and a forumer exposing the Melaka project on sgforums.
December 26th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Han(SE), pls wake up from your dream…
December 26th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Haha, do me a small favour. When leaving URLs in a comment, type something before the URL, otherwise it messes up the layout of the blog.
December 25th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Na Zha, where do you get the justification that Malaysia govt acknowledge SE?
December 25th, 2007 at 8:52 am
alright.
now that the CAD is on SE and the case is closing soon.Please keep this blog going.
I guess there will be much clearing going on.
anyways forgive me if i say anything false or wrong here.
1stly. MLM company are legal in Singapore.
(stated by The straits time)
2ndly. CAD is currently investigating whether if its a ponzi.
3rdly. it’s been 2months? since SE was on MAS… so erm? didnt someone mention it’ll fall?(not counting the 2years of history)
December 25th, 2007 at 12:47 am
SE agent defending his company in a civil manner.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1682264
December 24th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
to make matters even confusing.. my gov, M’sia acknowledge SE and its operation. Lots of young people doing recruiting even if i speak. Government servants like me are their target. What will come to this world where money is the god and nobody care about honesty and truth..
December 24th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
Phang is one of the founders of Swiss Cash, now a sleeping partner.
Here is the URL:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=277500&page=0
December 24th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Hang Wei, we understand that some of SE members are victims…but we have the duty to expose SE scam & warn Singaporeans against such scam. We do not hope to see Singaporeans get con like this…bear in mind that SE is not the first scam venture !
December 24th, 2007 at 9:51 am
a red coloured stone: Yes, James Phang is behind SC and SE. A friend confirmed that when she tried to get me to sign-up with SC after learning that I had joined SE. I stood firm on my decision not to as I had heard and read all the bad press while I was still in HYIPs.
Buying is an emotional process. 84% of folks buy solely on emotions alone. To sell something, you need to bang on 1 of 2 things. Identify either the ‘need’ or ‘want’. If there is a ‘need’, sell it. If there is no need, create the ‘want’. Simple as that.
I have a couple of posts on SE on my blog:
http://nicholasmong.com/daily/2007-that-time-of-the-year/
http://nicholasmong.com/daily/sunshine-empire-for-real-or-scam/
December 24th, 2007 at 9:05 am
I accidentally deleted a comment which I believe belongs to this post. I think it’s just a URL or something, so if it’s your comment, you may want to post again.
Anyway, thanks Red coloured stone and Wake up call for constantly porting information from other forums to this post. However, do remember that some Sunshine Empire members are victims too and this period of time has been especially harsh on them. Let’s just hope CAD hasten their investigations and do keep us updated.
December 24th, 2007 at 1:37 am
There’s some interesting threads in sgForums, MLM subforum. Swiss Cash is apparently started by Phang too.
December 23rd, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Such people should really go to jail! Imagine scamming so many Singaporeans into investing in “businesses” which eventually will fail.
December 23rd, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Nicholas:
I’ve been around online forums long enough…. I’ve seen all sorts of excuses MLMers give. SE case is really an eye opener for me.
How agents (for whatver reason) try to defend their company and end up bringing down the reputation, all thanks to their flaming of people who try and expose them. And when solid proof comes along, they would detract topics, give lame excuses, etc.
I couldn’t believe i had heard stuff like “under a great leader anything is possible” when asked where SE gets such high returns, more than the banks. SE provides no financial statements, only motivational pitch.
I can never find the answer why agents try to defend the company, unless they’re so brainwashed they would believe anything the boss says and will always support him. This would become a cult.
December 23rd, 2007 at 11:35 pm
It seems our dear Father Phang has great experience in scamming. He’s one of the people who established Swiss Cash.
December 23rd, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Oh…JP a Satan & SE members Santa ClauS !
December 23rd, 2007 at 8:09 pm
JP more like Satan Klaus
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I must say that this is one of the most interesting post I have seen on SE. It gets worst when ‘young punks’ and their associates shoot down what they call ‘naysayers’ for raising legitimate questions an arguments.
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:36 pm
SE members are actually Santa ClausS to James Phang… HO HO HO
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:17 am
What James Phang says you believe? I’ve seen people say “people fail now doesnt mean they will always fail” true… but no proof of anything SE says. No one knows where does the money come from.
It’s like saying “be good this year and you’ll receive a present from santa claus”.
Why not publish your balance sheets and accounts? Don’t say “why should we publish” or “even if we did you would not believe” or “why don’t YOU show your tax statement”. That’s how MLMers usually shoot back people. I’m saying since your plan is so great and you have a brillant boss, such a greeeeeeat leader, show the world your success. Post your accounts, instead of getting young punks who know nothing about finance to sell your shady scams.
December 22nd, 2007 at 9:35 pm
sunshine empire had changed lots of life… true… lots of people had been cheated of their money, and cheated into believing that a cult father is the god of fortune or santa claus.
I think bankrupt figures might jump by a substantial number this year. All because someone who thinks himself as a Father and turns his scam business into a cult.
December 22nd, 2007 at 8:55 pm
wondering, sad to say…i think there will be another bankruptcy case here
December 22nd, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Wondering, there are 3 ways that SE can provide such payout
1. Through money laundering
2. Recruiting new blood to support old blood
3. SE is a “Charitable Organization”, and JP is Santa Claus in disguise, worship him and you get your money…
December 22nd, 2007 at 3:36 pm
My worry is that I have went together with the S.E. members where the investor invests a number of GP’s. The S.E. members told their investor or merchant as they say that their G.P.’s are invested in emall. The newly recruited merchant are well known.
What if they can not recover their money in 15 months time? What if they (the investor) will sue me as accomplish if something’s happened? what will I do? to prevent this thing happens? I regreted. I realized that S.E. is not operating in financial intelligence scheme.
Why cant S.E. borrow money in the bank? the bank offers only 8%???
they are paying the mechants more than 100% in a year, Plus the binary pairing that paysout the uplines? at a maximum of 3,000 usd per day??? where will they get the money??? now they cant deny that their sales were affected when james fang wasnt able to attend the genting aneversary so with the MAS / CAD investigation…
What if they will again declaire bunkcruptcy because of the above scenario? What Happened to my face among the investors?
If S.E. can just show to me their financial statement if they are transparent to their investor I will be more at ease. Please S.E. people help me
December 22nd, 2007 at 10:05 am
Matthew Tan Yew Hock, your news source are all from internal, ie within SE. Have you read the news from external sources, ie straits times etc?
Pls read more…
December 21st, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Yew Hock, you had not answered the question, where does SE get all the income say a few months ago when none of the properties had been sold.
December 21st, 2007 at 8:06 am
Matthew Tan Yew Hock, we have read all these news previously…but what does it mean?
First of all, start work does not mean will continue work.
Second, pls check all previous experience & record of your father…projects start work but halfway close down…as a results, all members & investors lost their hard-earned money
Third, the projects all not yet completed & earning income, then how you members get the monthly income from? From your friends & relatives’ hard-earned money as they have just “psycho” to join SE?
December 21st, 2007 at 1:06 am
Malacca Marine Theme Park Projects
Reclamation and pile works have started.
Chinese newspapers
http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/newspaper/121207_zhong-guo-bao.pdf
http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/newspaper/161107_dongfangribao.pdf
English newspaper
http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/newspaper/171207_starmetro.pdf
Malay newspaper
http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/newspaper/121207_kosmo.pdf
Reclamation work was shown on TV news also. Press Conference Broadcast on TV channel
Malay ver (original), http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/video/RTM_malay_ver.avi
Mandarin ver, http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/video/RTM_chi_ver.avi
English ver, http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/video/RTM_eng.avi
December 20th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Jam Pui: Hey you guys, you really expose my scam to get more money from my current members & potential members! Pls dun say anymore…i beg you…
December 20th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Thats why.. They cannot show any proof where SE pumps money into to get such high returns…
They’ll say property, but that’s only lately. And besides, which property company would keep on changing the dsign even after clients had paid up? And at such a bad location?
They’ll say Emall, but SE claims few millions earnings. From where? Don’t tell me Emall. It would only be possible if it has the appeal and fame of say Ebay or Amazon. Don’t say wireless because even that had not taken off and earning money, if it could be proven in the first place.
Don’t tell me “SE is private company” or “even if I showed you, you would not believe”. Since SE is so good, why not show the world your balance sheets and financial statements, and advertise it in financial journals?
December 20th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Wondering, SE’s only income model is taking hard-earned money from the joining members. Nothing of the sorts for investments, buildings, telecom…all these are just used to persuade members to join SE & put in their hard-earned money.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Fro no. 20 and other S. E. members’
Sunshine Empire, if the business is transparent enough, Can you provide your income statement? How is it possible that the company can afford to use the people’s money on a certain investment like empire state bldg. and the like if the pay outs is more than 100% interest against the bank? If your pay out in one year is more that 100% in 18 months, why cant the sunshine empire borrow money in the bank that S.E. can only pay at 8% per annum? isnt that unwise to pay more than 100% interest in 18 mos. For S.E.? while S.E. can only pay 8% per annum instead at the bank?
The bank should be the lesser interest compared to getting cash to people where sunshine empire pays a lot, more than 100% in 18 mos?! if the company is earning and transparent please show to the investor that sunshine is really earning. Please help me not to be confused!
I am not skiptical nor i choose to be blind. Just please give my ligitimate question a ligitimate answer.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Which property developer would keep changing design? It’s an insult to the clients, who pay for what they get. And you just suddenly change the design?
December 19th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Sunshine Empire, if the business is transparent enough, Can you provide your income statement? How is it possible that the company can afford to use the people’s money on a certain investment like empire state bldg. and the like if the pay outs is more than 100% interest against the bank? If your pay out in one year is more that 100% in 18 months, why cant the sunshine empire borrow money in the bank that you can only pay at 8% per annum? isnt that unwise to pay more than 100% interest in 18 mos. while you can only pay 8% per annum instead? the bank should be the lesser interest compared to getting cash to people where sunshine empire pays a lot, more than 100% in 18 mos?! if the company is earning and transparent please show to the investor that sunshine is really earning. Please help me not to be confused!
Again, if sunshine empire borrows money from the bank its only 8% per annum. Why would sunshine pay more than 100%??? Its not using the principle of financial intelligence…Im confused!
December 19th, 2007 at 12:25 am
For me, even better. I’m building 100 storey condo in Marina Bay. Put $1 with me and get 100 returns every month. Muahahaha.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Big goondu, can…pay me 12K now, i can give you $444 per month…i have many building projects on hand…one of them is many office buildings that group together to form the shape of a leopard head.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
I will buy Mr Wake Up GP if it give me $444 return p.m., if not I would rather stick to my $88, at least I know they pay me every month…
As for Mr Wake Up… I don’t think We can trust him so much hor…
December 18th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Matthew Tan Yew Hock, where do you get the justification that Malaysia authorities have approved the project?
December 18th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Wake Up Call:
I would certainly like to see proof of where SE gets all the money from. To build properties, acquire companies, with agent’s money.
China Photar is making a loss. In property you need to buy the land, secure loan, make downpayment to building contractor. And the contractor will only start work when they are confident you’re able to pay them. For luxury properties, its better to use higher quality construction companies, with higher construction standards. And naturally construction costs would go up.
SE is indeed selling property, so this $ can be used to pay for partially the construction costs and land costs. But SE has zero experience in building properties. And the properties themselves… no showroom, poor design, and ever-changing design?
For Empire State, first its located at Jalan Raja Chulan, then its at Jalan Tun Razak? First it was blue, now it’s gold coloured? In the interior renderings show curved glass windows, but theres no curved glass anywhere. Also, there is no showroom for any of the properties.
The site is an extremely bad location, just beside the expressway flyover and slipway.
December 18th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Tan Wei Jie,
I have checked it up for you. EPV has found that the land at Jalan Raja Chulan was problematic - maybe for the expanded 2-tower version.
So, they have acquired another plot of land at Jalan Tun Razak.
The building design has expanded from one tower to 2 towers, accomodating the demand of about 290 units.
Originally they had planned for only one tower and 100 units. But they have orders for 357 units, according to The Entrepreneur (Issue No. 82). Some 67 orders will not be fulfilled, then.
It is L-shaped, with one leg of the L tending slightly towards U.
The project has now been approved by the Government.
You can compare the old design and the new design in these two videos:
http://tv.mofile.com/XBSVN8Q8/
(old)
http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/projects_EST.html
(new, now on EPV website)
December 18th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
The only thing we can do is to wait. My friend has gotten involved with sunshine and at this crucial moment, he’s still saving to buy GP, seems like he is a die hard fan. I am really worried about him. Not saying that sunshine is really a scam but true enough, the arguements above had shown that sunshine has quite a high chance of being a scam. However, its useless to debate over this as even though my friend had seen this blog, he still seem persistent in getting a GP.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:22 am
Ming, you want to buy my GP too? Can pay double wor…
December 18th, 2007 at 8:21 am
red stone, they cannot answer your questions because they are blinded by the only $88 received for their hard-earned 12K put in (and going to lose all to SE scam)
Goondu, tell you to buy my GP you dun want…i can payout double $176 for you…silly
December 18th, 2007 at 2:17 am
so can anyone tell me where does all the money come from since none of the projects had been earning money?
December 18th, 2007 at 1:23 am
Ya agree Ah Ming, after I pay 12K for the GP, this month I got $88 back!!! Wooohooo!!!
Those skeptics dun just choose to be blind, they also STEWPID LEWSERS starting and ending with capital A$S!